In this week’s episode of the Pipeliners Podcast, host Russel Treat is joined by Richard Delaney of National Grid and Alan Redding from Consumers Energy, the chairs of the AGA Gas Control Committee , to talk about the content of the 2023 AGA Operations Section Fall Meetings & Workshops.

In this episode, you will learn about how LDAR will affect the control room, what white papers to expect to see coming up, and the future of control rooms. Listen to the episode now for insights and takeaways from the event, including discussions on regulatory impacts on Control Rooms.

2023 AGA Fall Gas Control Committee Show Notes, Links, and Insider Terms:

• Richard Delaney is a Gas Control Director with National Grid. Connect with Rich on LinkedIn.
  • National Grid plays a vital role in connecting millions of people to the energy they use, while continually seeking ways to make the energy system cleaner. National Grid Ventures and National Grid Partners also enable innovations to help revolutionize and decarbonise the future of energy.
• Alan Redding is a Gas Control Director with Consumers Energy. Connect with Alan on LinkedIn.
  • Consumers Energy is one of the largest combination utilities (electricity and natural gas) in the United States, and their reach in Michigan extends to nearly 6.6 million residents in the 68 Lower Peninsula counties. 
• AGA (American Gas Association) represents companies delivering natural gas safely, reliably, and in an environmentally responsible way to help improve the quality of life for their customers every day. AGA’s mission is to provide clear value to its membership and serve as the indispensable, leading voice and facilitator on its behalf in promoting the safe, reliable, and efficient delivery of natural gas to homes and businesses across the nation.
• AGA Operations Conference is the natural gas industry’s premier gathering of natural gas utility and transmission company operations management from across North America and the world for the sharing of technical knowledge, ideas and practices to promote the safe, reliable, and cost-effective delivery of natural gas to the end-user. 
• The CRM Rule (Control Room Management Rule as defined by 49 CFR Parts 192 and 195) introduced by PHMSA provides regulations and guidelines for control room managers to safely operate a pipeline. PHMSA’s pipeline safety regulations prescribe safety requirements for controllers, control rooms, and SCADA systems used to remotely monitor and control pipeline operations.
  • Control Room Management is regulated by PHMSA under 49 CFR Parts 192 and 195 for the transport of gas and hazardous liquid pipelines, respectively. PHMSA’s pipeline safety regulations prescribe safety requirements for controllers, control rooms, and SCADA systems used to remotely monitor and control pipeline operations.
• Rupture Mitigation Valve (RMV) is any automatic shut off or remote-controlled valve that an operator uses to minimize the volume of gas released to mitigate the consequences of a rupture.
• RCV (Remote-Control Valves) are started or stopped using remote control technology from a separate location, typically a pipeline control room. The key is ensuring that controllers are equipped to understand what action to take when there is an event that could potentially require closure of the valve.
• DIMP (Distribution Integrity Management Program) activities are focused on obtaining and evaluating information related to the distribution system that is critical for a risk-based, proactive integrity management program that involves programmatically remediating risks.
• LDAR (Leak Detection and Repair) regulations require operators to craft a program that specifies the regulatory requirements and facility-specific procedures for recordkeeping certifications, monitoring, and repairs to prevent damage to people and the environment.
• Valve and Rupture Rule is a newly updated PHMSA regulation. This rule establishes requirements for rupture-mitigation valves, such as spacing, maintenance and inspection, and risk analysis. The final rule also requires operators of gas and hazardous liquid pipelines to contact 9-1-1 emergency call centers immediately upon notification of a potential rupture and conduct post-rupture investigations and reviews.
• PUC (Public Utility Commission) A regulatory body in every state in the U.S. that governs public utilities within its jurisdiction such as electricity, gas, oil, sewer, water, transportation and telephone service. Some states call it the Public Service Commission (PSC).
• Pipeline SMS (Pipeline Safety Management Systems) or PSMS is an industry-wide focus to improve pipeline safety, driving toward zero incidents.
• KPI (key performance indicator) is a measurable value that is intended to show how well a business is adhering to its business model and strategies.
• Risk Register is a table of project risks that allows you to track each identified risk and any vital information about it. 
• Visit the AGA committee site to see the resources they have available.

2023 AGA Fall Gas Control Committee Full Episode Transcript:

Russel Treat: Welcome to the “Pipeliners Podcast” Episode 304, sponsored by EnerSys Corporation, providers of POEMS, the Pipeline Operations Excellence Management System, compliance and operation software for the pipeline control center to address control room management, SCADA, and audit readiness. Find out more about POEMS at EnerSysCorp.com.

Announcer: The Pipeliners Podcast, where professionals, bubba geeks, and industry insiders share their knowledge and experience about technology, projects, and pipeline operations. Now your host, Russel Treat.

Russel: Thanks for listening to the Pipeliners Podcast. I appreciate you taking the time. To show our appreciation, we give away a customized YETI tumbler to one listener every episode. This week our winner is Justin Freeman with Kinder Morgan. Congratulations, Justin. Your YETI is on its way. To learn how you can win this prize, stick around till the end of the episode.

This week, we speak to Richard Delaney with National Grid and Alan Redding with Consumers Energy, in their roles as chairs of the AGA Gas Control Committee and the 2023 Fall Committee Meetings.

I’m sitting here at the very last, I guess, 45 minutes of the AGA Fall Committee Meetings. I’ve got Rich Delaney with me from National Grid and Alan Redding from Consumers Energy. They’re the leaders of the Gas Control Committee. We’re just wrapping up. I asked these guys to come and talk to us about…What did y’all talk about? Rich, Alan, welcome to the Pipeliners Podcast.

Rich Delaney: Thanks, Russel.

Alan Redding: Thank you.

Russel: What was talked about? Unfortunately, I wasn’t in the entire meeting this week. What were some of the key subjects you guys talked about this week?

Rich: It was a really good week for the Gas Control Committee. We’ve had a lot of good times sharing knowledge. We had some really good presentations, a lot of focus on control room management, as always, which is a key focus for the committee.

We also talked a lot about the RMV rule that is impacting the industry, as well as the latest DIMP ruling and the LDAR ruling. A lot of good conversations amongst the Gas Control Committee about how that all affects the control centers in our operations.

Alan: We’re starting to introduce some more topics about what continuous improvement looks like and some about of the future of control rooms. Like we’d said earlier, the CRM is maturing and so we’re talking about what our future control rooms look like.

Russel: Let’s talk about the valve and rupture rule a little bit. What were your key learnings or was there any consensus building about how to do that in the gas utility space?

Rich: I think some of the challenges are it’s still an evolving rule and it’s still a challenge for a lot of us to understand how the rule is going to impact the control center. We talked a lot about the identification of the RMVs, the requirements around the response to RMVs, as well as the notification to the PSPs, the 911 centers.

A lot of operators talked about the challenges of knowing exactly which 911 center potentially could be affected by a rupture or a potential rupture. Then also, a lot of discussions since we’re the control center folks, a lot of detailed discussion about the calculation of that percent pressure drop in the required timeframe.

A lot of detailed wonky technical discussion about how inside our SCADA systems we could do the calculations and how we bring that response to the controller for the individual valve segments. Then also, how do you opt a segment out or increase that percent drop because of characteristics like a power plant or a compressor? That requirement is not an absolute standard.

We talked a lot about what analysis the different controllers have done based on the segments and where the RMVs are located, and how we assess what the right pressure drop is and what time frame. There’s good conversations around that.

Alan: It’s not just a control room issue. It’s a lot of coordination with the engineering developed a workable plan to make sure that we’re successful in the future.

Russel: It’s one of those other things that I think one of my takeaways from just the whole week is there’s becoming an increasing emphasis on those things that cut across departments and how that works. This is a good example of that.

There’s a whole, where do you locate it? That’s one group. Then there’s a whole, how do you build it? That’s another group. Then there’s, how do you automate it? That’s another group. Then once you have it automated, how do you get to a rupture? It just goes on and on and on. It gets real complex.

I did have an interesting sidebar with one of the attendees about, I think there’s a presumption in the rule, it’s not implied, but it’s presumed that it’s a straight run of pipe and two isolation valves, like a liquid transmission or gas transmission line. That is way more straightforward than what you find in a utility system, where it’s a whole spider web of lines that are all connected.

Knowing that you have a leak is one thing. Knowing where it is and how to isolate it, it’s not necessarily straightforward. We had some sidebar conversation about how you might do that. There’s probably an opportunity for some vendor someplace to come up with a cool solution for that. One of the many challenges that people are struggling with.

Rich: As well as the impacts. When you talk about a liquid pipeline or a straight set of pipe, at the LDC level, for us in gas control, you also have incredible impacts.

You may have a section of pipe, where if it’s the wrong time of the year and you make a decision to close a valve based on an indication, you could potentially put 10, 20 thousand customers at risk of losing service. What is the decision for the controller and how they make the right decision is a challenge as well too.

Russel: When you’re looking at feeding a power plant or if you’re looking at feeding a neighborhood during a high cold day, an intense cold day, those are very much non trivial decisions.

I’ve said this many times. Gas systems, particularly gas utility systems, were designed and built to ensure deliverability. They were not designed and built to ensure that we could isolate them.

Alan: Each individual regulatory body is going to prioritize that differently, or could potentially.

Russel: Particularly when you start talking about the states and the PUCs and all that and for the bigger operators that have lots of that. There was a lot of conversation about that today, just about the impact of different inspectors coming in and looking at things from different viewpoints.

That’s one of the things that’s unique about gas utility operations, particularly the larger ones. It really makes it challenging, for sure.

The other thing you talked about was the LDAR. That’s leak detection and repair. I always try to decode the acronyms while I’m doing this. How is LDAR going to affect the control room, in y’all’s opinion?

Rich: There’s a couple of topics in there. There’s trying the response, again, the notification process. Gas control centers of varying stages or varying types, control centers, have some responsibility for notifications. There’s the challenge there.

Then there’s also a challenge around overpressure protection and what’s that impact to the control center and increased visualization. There is talk in one of the rules, one of the two new rules, about… If you’re going to have a low pressure station, it has to have visibility back to the control center.

Some folks, that’s going to mean increased point to points, control room management, alarm values, increased alarm metrics, increased alarm fatigue. There’s lots of different things that can potentially touch the control center, depending on what your current company’s status of bringing information back to your control room may be.

Russel: The regulation and low pressure, that’s more in the distribution rule than the…

Rich: The LDAR rule.

Russel: …the leak detection and repair…

Rich: That’s true.

Russel: …but they’re related. One of the ways that leak detection and repair could impact the control room is, because there’s going to be an increasing focus on identifying and correcting those leaks, that could mean a whole lot more abnormal operations in order to isolate lines for a period of time to work those leaks.

There’s probably something bound up in all that. I’m not sure that I understand what it is yet.

Rich: A lot of the companies, a lot of the gas control operators in the room, have some sort of isolation process that comes through the control center. PG&E has a very sophisticated one.

National Grid has a longstanding process or policy, the SOP policy. We require a detailed step of work for any work that gets done on the system. You certainly could see an increased amount of workload with that, as that becomes more…

Russel: A need for tighter integration with operations, just in terms of what you’re going to have to do. Anything else in the LDAR or the distribution rule that you guys are looking at? One of the things that I’m curious about…

I haven’t read the distribution rule in detail yet, but I do know there’s some things in there about the low pressure regulating stations and how they’re set up for redundant sensing. That, to me, seems really problematic. It just seems really problematic. I don’t know how you do that in a way that doesn’t have some kind of material impact on operations.

Alan: We’re still learning on how to move forward with this. Definitely, the things Rich laid out is a good plan to work with. How it really falls out, we’re still to come a little bit on.

Russel: I’m right there with you, Alan. We’ve got a lot of learning to do to figure it out. It is a valid question. I don’t know. It seems like we’re being asked, as an industry, to be way more proactive and way more redundant than we have been historically.

There’s a lot of things that we’ve accepted for a long period of time as normal operations, that are just not going to be acceptable going forward. Getting clear about what boxes things fit in is going to be a challenge.

Rich: That ties into what Al said before. I know you’ve had a previous episode on what is the control center of the future. We had a presentation on developing a high performance control room culture.

What does the next 10, 20 years’ evolution in the control room look like? We talked about people, technology, and process as being the key triangle of how we have to look at this and a lot of conversation that we’re 10, 12 years on from control room management.

We have to start to think about, moving forward, what does that…CRM and control room management is the basis of all the human factors, work that came out of the legacy leadership of gas control and the regulations. Now we need to look forward.

To your point, it’s all about increasing modernization that brings challenges to the operator sitting in the room. He’s got more to review. He’s got more to monitor. He’s got more to control. He or she has…

Russel: We’re going to be feeding them more data and more data and more data. We’re going to have to get better at distilling it to make it actionable. I think all that’s true. People, processes, and…What’d you say?

Rich: Technology.

Russel: People, processes, and technology.

Rich: I would add regulatory and the impacts of how our regulatory and government agencies see us playing in that role as these become more and more. There’s more and more opportunities that we need to increase our abilities and our ways of working.

Russel: That, to me, has been thematic in the things I’ve been hearing in the committee meetings, not just in gas control, but in a number of other committees, and the whole move to pipeline safety management. When you start talking about control rooms of the future and operations management versus gas control, that starts becoming more of a process of safety management.

Then – we’re not talking about it yet, but I think we’re going to – there’s also a process quality component to all that too, process safety being the things you’re trying to have not happen and process quality being the things you’re trying to have happen well. I don’t think we’re going to have any lack of things to do for the next 10 years. 

Rich: No, absolutely not.

Russel: We’re going to see a lot of change. We’re going to see an absolute lot of change. What other things is the committee working on?

Rich: Today, we had the last day of the session. We had a great overview and huddled with the leadership and a bunch of operators. We piloted something over this past summer that really was the genesis coming from Russ Viejo at Southwest Gas.

He started a movement a couple years ago that he expressed as how we can help each other. How can we operators help each other around topics in control room management? How could we have a focus group where we could all learn from each other, share with each other, in a way that we could help each other improve?

Under Russ’ guidance, myself as the chair, and Al, we put together a pilot over the summer, where three companies, three operators inside of the committee, volunteered to host, for three or four days, a virtual focus group where the host company shared topics in their CRM plan that they wanted feedback from other operators.

Then we had a group of reviewers, five or six companies, volunteer to send representatives to this virtual meeting. It was all done over Teams using technology. The host company, we put together a deck. My team at National Grid did a great job.

Chris [inaudible 14:35] and Keith Ritner put together a great deck and focused the week on different topics in our CRM plan that we wanted to get feedback from others. We looked to where we thought we needed to improve. We hosted the four days that first week. Again, this was a pilot. The opportunity was to learn what worked and what didn’t, how we could get better in the process itself.

From National Grid, we went to Washington Gas and Light. Finally, Portland Natural Gas hosted the third week. Today, we had a review session. We took survey results throughout the three different sessions, on what people felt about how the session went, the time, the topics.

Today, we had an in depth review of the pilot and really had a great session today. People were engaged and active. We talked about what we learned from each other, how we could improve the process coming out of here, and then how we make it enduring. Al is moving up as first chair next year.

Alan: First chair next year.

Rich: Now it’s our effort, going forward, to how do we embed this focus group and how do we make it more structured and…I don’t know.

Alan: In the AGA committee, again, it’s collaboration. It’s really taking the collaboration to the next level of sharing our documents and really getting into the weeds of what our documents really say. That collaboration leads to the industry being better, the public being safer. That’s what the AGA supports. That’s what we try to do here…

Russel: I say kudos to the committee for doing this. I’m sure it’s been a lot of work and a lot of effort and a lot of…Certainly, there’s a lot of people that have put their time and energy and expertise into it. Kudos. It’s awesome. There’s a huge opportunity there.

If you can get to the 60 percent or 70 percent or 80 percent that’s common across all gas utilities and really nail that down, you create a basis for raising the performance of the entire industry. This is a really exciting initiative that you guys are working on. I’m very interested to see where the work goes.

Rich: We talked about today. While these sessions were focused specifically on the major topics of CRM, we talked about, you brought up earlier, those two new rulings, or the RMV rules. Potentially, two or three years down, does this process or does this focus group evolve into “Hey, how are you guys administering the RMV rule?”

We’re starting to have our first operators getting audited for control room management with the RMV rule in effect and having it affect operators. We’re really looking forward to the spring meeting in Seattle to hear from our next incoming chair, who’s going to have his first audit with RMVs in the plan.

It’s a continuing evolution of how we share with each other and help each other. I could see the focus group developing not just into CRM, but LDAR, the distribution rule, the RMV rules. It could blossom into many different things.

Russel: I think particularly for the larger utility operators like yourselves, that there’s a real possibility that the operations leadership going into the future is going to come out of the work that you’re doing here.

Because you have an opportunity to get PSMS in the way it’s meant to get in, like getting to, what are the KPIs? What is the risk register? What is the quality performance register? All of that kind of thing, and really flush it out across the industry.

If you were able to do that, and I know this wasn’t, full disclosure, were not discussed in the committee, but it would be something I would advocate for, is the opportunity to benchmark. If you can agree on the processes and you can agree on the KPIs, then you have the opportunity to start benchmarking. That’s a big deal for the industry.

Rich: That’s interesting. I don’t know if you were in for a PG&E’s presentation. Sheryl Tejano did a great presentation on their benchmarking. Their utilization of Lean Six Sigma shades into CRM and how they operate their control center. She had some really great insights into how they’re doing some benchmarking and around their work…

Russel: I was thinking really hard when she was talking.

Rich: She did a great job.

Russel: She did a great job. A lot of information. A lot there to chew on.

Rich: That’s what’s exciting too, Russ, about these meetings but also the pilot we had over the summer. We had the review companies, but we told the reviewing companies they could bring more than just the folks that come to this meeting. Some of the operators brought five and six people.

It’s just that sharing of knowledge and the sharing of the benefits of getting outside your control center to learn what others are doing. Because we all learn from each other, we can all benefit from sharing with each other.

Russel: So true. Being a consultant that does that kind of work, I think this is awesome. Because one of the things that happens when it’s an operator or a group of operators talking to an operator doing the same thing is that conversation is just different. It’s certainly different than talking to regulators, but it’s also different from talking to an outside consultant because there’s a level of trust and such that just goes above and beyond. There’s still room for the vendor community and the consultant community to play in all of that. I think it’s really exciting, frankly.

Alan: To build on what you were talking about, benchmarking, that leads to the buzzword of leading indicators. That’s what we’re all looking for out there, the leading indicators that aren’t responding to a problem but predicting and avoiding a problem. That’s our big goal.

Russel: Telling you what your posture is around potential problems. CRM is great. There’s KPIs in CRM, but most of that is lagging indicators. Really, process safety management and quality management should be about leading indicators. I was talking about this to Jim Francis in a podcast we did last week but recorded yesterday. I know it’s all weird. Timeline’s strange.

Anyways, we were talking about how, if you look at a system and you can get really clear about the process and how the process is sequenced, then the lagging indicators for one process can be leading indicators for the next.

Really figuring out what that looks like in the gas utility control world, you guys are way further along than most the other industry niches, at least in my experience, because you’re working it. The stuff that PG&E presented and the KPIs that are already working, it’s interesting. It’s cool stuff.

What would you want the smaller operators to know about the work that this committee does, particularly the smaller utility operators maybe that don’t have the resources to send people up to the committee and participate in these kinds of meetings?

Alan: A lot of the things that we do are scalable. To look at it, looking at the functionality, the philosophy. We put together an operating philosophy, a year or so back, that’s available out there.

They see what the key elements of a successful program looks like. Take a look. The challenge is finding scalability and being able to implement what you can and what fits for the operations, for the need.

Russel: Certainly, there’s a ton of resources on the AGA committee site, just a ton. We’ll link that up in the show notes so people that don’t know how to find it can find it.

Rich: I would also suggest, just saying goodbye to some of our fellow folks here, all of our companies are also members of regional gas associations, Southeast Gas Association, Northeast Gas Association. There’s many different regions. You’ll see whether it’s myself, or I’m sending someone for my team.

You can have an avenue if you’re staying closer to home, at a regional, to get the same access. It’s really about just meeting people. There’s no one in gas control that’s going to bite your hand. We’re always going to help each other.

That’s what it is about, being in the control room. We all have the same problems, the same challenges. We’re going to help and share. If you see one of us at a meeting or you see somebody, “Hey, we heard AGA, I heard they were talking about this,” or I see this on the website, reach out, ask a question, get an email address. We’re always going to help out.

Russel: I think that’s so true. It’s a very collaborative community. People lean into everything together. I’ve been blessed to be involved with the AGA Gas Control Committee. Just a great group of people, for one thing.

Also, in my experience in the stuff I’ve done, you guys just lean into the questions way harder than other places I’ve been. You’re typically well ahead of where the industry is at.

We’re all sitting here and we’re watching our watches because we’ve got to get checked out of the hotel and off to the airport here pretty quick. How might we wrap this conversation up? What else do we want to tell the other operators out there or other listeners to the podcast that might not be in the control room? What are some of the takeaways or things you’d want them to know?

Alan: If you’re not an operator, if you don’t know your gas control person, get to know them. There’s a lot of good discussions, a lot of good things coming out of what we do. Before CRM, we were a little more out of the way, weren’t as much. CRM has brought us to the forefront of the gas operations side.

Our auditors always want to know what gas control saw now, and what are they seeing, and what are they bringing in? Build those relationships. Understand how the control room and how the information coming out of it can help you.

Russel: Absolutely. I think you’re absolutely right. I’ve certainly seen that transition across the industry, not just in gas utility. 15 years ago, the control room was either behind glass where the executives could show off the pretty cartoons on the wall, or it was in a room with a locked door and nobody ever went in there and they didn’t know what those people did.

It’s like, “They’re there all the time. We’ll just give them everything.” Control room management has changed how the control room is perceived. If there’s any big benefit to the industry out of CRM, that’s it, in my mind. It’s repositioned what is the role of the pipeline control center.

Rich: Absolutely. I think that a key takeaway is that industry knowledge and sharing that we’re trying to do here can be applied anywhere. Look to your left, look to your right at a meeting, how are you guys doing it? That’s the benefit.

Also, one of the things we talk about at the start of every meeting, while the meetings are important, the topics are important, it’s the relationships that you make at these meetings that are going to help you. That’s the difference.

The time just standing in the lobby waiting for your Uber to go out to dinner, the 15 minute conversation you have there, there is so much benefit to what happens at off hours that it’s…

Russel: It’s so true. So very, very true. Some of the conversations you have in the evening is you’re just socializing and you’re allowing yourself to think. That’s the thing we lost during COVID and we haven’t got it all the way back. Getting to these committees and being able to talk to people and have relationships, it’s so critical. It’s what makes this business a joy, frankly.

I just want to say, first off, kudos to the committee for all the good work you’re doing. I’m looking forward to, as you start to build some of these other documents and things and publish them, I would encourage operators, even if they’re not gas operators, to have a look at what you’re doing because there’s probably a very large part of it you could directly apply.

Rich: I think also we’d be doing a disservice to Mike who is our executive, and who handles us with AGA. We didn’t talk about the fact that we have a couple of white papers in development too. We have a white paper coming up on the gas control center’s response to a cybersecurity attack.

It’s not real in the details or in the weeds about IT and firewalls, but what happens if your controller starts to lose control of his mouse or his screens go dark? How does the control center take those tactical responses and adjust and react to them? That’s one white paper we’re working on. The second white paper we’re working on is…

Alan: RCVs.

Rich: RCVs, RMV rule, and how does the control center respond to the indications of an RMV rule, and the RMV rule response in the control center. Didn’t want to walk away without…

Sorry, we have two white papers in review at AGA legal right now, our control center philosophy, and our team training white paper that hopefully will be out soon. Then we have these two new things that we’re working on.

I will give a shout out to the committee, and I think this hearkens back to a previous comment you made when we put out the call for volunteers to work on white papers, which at times sounds more tedious than it is. We have a huge response from individuals who want to volunteer.

That’s another sign of the health of this group and the interest of this group. We’ve had five or six names for each of the white papers that want to get involved, want to dig in, and push us further. That’s a great opportunity.

Russel: Just to decode a little language, RCV, RMV, that’s remotely monitored, remotely controlled valves and relates to the valve and rupture rule. I’m sure when that white paper comes out, there’ll be a lot of people with interest. I would say the liquid guys need to look at it too.

I will declare that liquid hydraulics and gas hydraulics are different, they’re going to need to work differently, but I think it’ll be educational to understand what they’re doing on the gas side and why.

Then lastly, I need to say mea culpa to Rich because he has submitted an application to win the Pipeline podcast YETI twice and he’s yet to win one. I told him if he puts in another application, I’d have a word with the prize selection committee and hook him up. There you go.

Rich: I know the fix was in.

Rich: “Delaney does not get one.”

Russel: No, no. I went back and looked at my records and I’m like, “How did I miss that?” Anyways. Look, gentlemen, thank you so much. I know you’re trying to get out of here, so we’ll wrap. Great work. Keep doing it, and I look forward to seeing where this goes in the future.

Rich: All right, thank you.

Alan: Thanks, Russell.

Rich: Thanks, Russ.

Russel: I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode of the “Pipeliners Podcast” and our conversation with Rich and Alan. Just a reminder, before you go, you should register to win our customized Pipeliners Podcast YETI tumbler. Simply visit PipelinePodcastNetwork.com/Win and enter yourself in the drawing.

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Transcription by CastingWords