This week’s Pipeliners Podcast episode features Ritch Rappel of Enbridge and Andri Orphanides of API discussing the API 1169 certification program that was created to enhance pipeline construction inspection.

In this episode, you will learn about what led to the introduction of API 1169 for inspection certification, the stakeholders that came together to build the framework to support pipeline safety, how attitudes and behaviors have changed over time, how the certification program can help pipeliners advance in their career, and more topics.

Pipeline Construction Inspection: Show Notes, Links, and Insider Terms

• Ritch Rappel is the Senior Construction Management Specialist for Enbridge.
  • Watch Ritch’s presentation to the Pipeline Safety Trust on pipeline construction and the reasons for failure of new pipe.
• Andri Orphanides is the manager of ICP (Individual Certification Programs) for API. Connect with Andri on LinkedIn.
  • API (American Petroleum Institute): Since its formation in 1919 as a standards-setting organization, API has developed more than 700 standards to enhance industry operations. Today, it is the global leader in convening subject matter experts to establish, maintain, and distribute consensus standards for the oil and natural gas industry.
    • API ICP (Individual Certification Programs) provide the industry with an independent and unbiased way to evaluate the knowledge and experience of technical and inspection personnel. These certification programs are based on the industry-developed standards that are recognized and used with confidence worldwide.
• Pipeline Career Resource: Download this handy guide, “Career Guide for Pipeline Inspectors: A Road Map to Navigate the Pipeline Industry.”
• API 1169 (Pipeline Construction Inspection) focuses on the basic inspector requirements needed to inspect new onshore pipelines in a safe and reliable manner. Applicants can qualify in one or more of these categories: Pipeline Inspection Experience, General Oil & Gas Industry Inspection Experience, Non-Inspection Pipeline Experience, Non-Inspection General Oil & Gas Industry Experience, and Other Heavy Industry Experience.
• API 510 (Pressure Vessel Inspector) outlines the minimum qualification requirements for the Pressure Vessel inspector certification. It is based on the combination of education and experience related to pressure vessels. This experience must have been acquired within the last 10 years while employed by, or under contract with, an authorized inspection agency as defined in API 510.
• INGAA (Interstate Natural Gas Association of America) is a trade organization that advocates regulatory and legislative positions of importance to the natural gas pipeline industry in North America.
• CEPA (Canadian Energy Pipeline Association) consists of transmission pipeline companies responsible for transporting the majority of Canada’s natural gas and crude oil to markets across North America. CEPA members work together to deliver energy in the safest, most responsible way.
• NACE is an international organization dedicated to protecting people, assets, and the environment from the adverse effects of corrosion.
  • CWB (CWB Group) certifies companies, inspection organizations, inspectors, and welding consumables through a review and qualification process to ensure that they meet the requirements for a variety of product, safety codes, and standards.
• The Pipeline Safety Trust (PST) is a public charity promoting pipeline safety through education and advocacy by increasing access to information, and by building partnerships with residents, safety advocates, government, and industry.

Pipeline Construction Inspection: Full Episode Transcript

Russel Treat:  Welcome to the Pipeliners Podcast, episode 169, sponsored by the American Petroleum Institute, driving safety, environmental protection, and sustainability across the natural gas and oil industry through world-class standards and safety programs. Since its formation as a standards-setting organization in 1919, API has developed more than 700 standards to enhance industry operations worldwide. Find out more about API at api.org.

[background music]

Announcer:  The Pipeliners Podcast, where professionals, Bubba geeks, and industry insiders share their knowledge and experience about technology, projects, and pipeline operations. Now your host, Russel Treat.

Russel:  Thanks for listening to the Pipeliners Podcast. I appreciate you taking the time. To show the appreciation, we give away a customized YETI tumbler to one listener each episode. This week, our winner is Michael McAdams, with Colonial Pipeline. Congratulations, Michael. Your YETI is on its way. To learn how you can win this signature prize, stick around until the end of the episode.

This week, Ritch Rappel of Enbridge and Andri Orphanides with API join us to talk about API Recommended Practice 1169 for Pipeline Construction Inspection. Let’s get started.

Andri, Ritch, welcome to the Pipeliners Podcast.

Ritch Rappel:  Thank you very much, Russel.

Andri Orphanides:  I’m excited to be here. Thank you, Russel.

Russel:  I asked you guys to come on to talk about API 1169. Before we dive in, maybe you guys could give the listeners a little bit of your background. Andri, do you mind going first?

Andri:  I do not mind. Thank you. I’m Andri Orphanides. I’m with the American Petroleum Institute. I work specifically in the individual certification programs. I’ve been with API for about 10 years helping to work with the industry to develop industry credentialing programs.

Russel:  Cool. Ritch, how about yourself? What do you do? What’s your background in pipelining?

Ritch:  I’m currently working for Enbridge. I’m part of a department called Construction Services. It allows us to set a lot of the direction policy for the company.

I’ve been in various parts of construction pipeline and construction and facilities construction a majority of my life, so over 35 years. I have really enjoyed it. I keep getting drawn back into pipeline.

Right now, I guess my job title or position description is Construction Management Specialist. It allows me the flexibility to do a lot of mentoring and to assist people with making good decisions around what they’re going to do to make projects successful.

Russel:  I imagine with everything that Enbridge has going on these days, you’re finding yourself staying pretty busy.

Ritch:  Yes. It’s interesting times with everything that’s going on, COVID and everything else, but we’re still managing to stay busy. It hasn’t been the bottom dropping out of it. Yeah, we stay busy. We’re actually taking on a different approach. We’re serving our clients better. We’re becoming more of a service organization to make projects successful. It’s always new and improving.

Russel:  I started out many, many moons ago in construction. I did it long enough to know that that’s really not what I wanted to do for my career, but I certainly think there’s a lot of value in experience, just knowing all the things that could go sideways on you.

I guess that really gets to why 1169. Maybe you guys could tell us a little bit. What’s the background? What was the driver for 1169? How did this pipeline construction inspection practice come about?

Andri:  I’ll start with how it started at API really. The 1169 actually has an interesting background, unlike some of our other certification programs that we’ve built for the industry.

In, I’d say, around 2008, 2009, we did have a group of pipeline operators who approached API with an interest to create a program, a certification program really, around certifying the knowledge of inspectors who were operating our projects.

Of course, this came after incidents that were happening and regulators coming and saying that, “Something needs to be done. There needs to be a solution.” I think with a lot of the certification programs we have, they always start with an answer to fixing problems. When the industry is being portrayed in a not so good light, they’re always looking to see how they can improve.

We were approached. As they were scoping out the program, every one of the certification programs we have does have a base document where the knowledge comes from. If you look at our API 510, it has the standard, 510.

As we were scoping out the program and the knowledge that would be needed, they basically realized that there isn’t a good base document that would cover the knowledge that would be needed for inspection of new construction.

The 10, 12 operators that had been participating in this, as they were discussing, realized that within their own company policies and procedures, they overlapped about 80 percent in terms of what they were doing and what worked well from their lessons learned. There was an agreement that they would bring that together. That’s how the 1169 got started, essentially.

We put the program on hold in order to have the document be written and completed. It took about two years for that to happen. The first edition was published in 2013. We shortly followed with the certification program based on that document. There’s other documents that come into the body of knowledge as a whole, but that would be the base document for it.

Russel:  I’m just going to restate that, Andri, make sure I understand it. Basically, what happened is you guys were working on a qualification program for inspectors and realized you needed to create a base document to support the program.

Andri:  Absolutely, yes.

Russel:  Interesting. What were you trying to accomplish with the certification program and the base document?

Andri:  Initially, it was to create a standardized knowledge that pipeliners could rely on to ensure that anybody coming through, working on the projects, had a base knowledge of what was needed to be done and how projects should be worked on and the safety concerns and what happens in the right-of-way and a whole host of other issues where they were finding that there were problems with.

In order to create that, they wanted to have a credential so that they as companies could then rely on, if a person came through and showed an aptitude and knowledge by qualifying, I should say, and then passing a knowledge-based exam, that that would be at least a base that everybody could rely on.

Russel:  Ritch, what would you have to add to that, if anything?

Ritch:  We were coming at it a little bit differently. Operators or people from our company were involved in that initiative with API. At the same time, INGAA and CEPA, which we were both members of, realized that we wanted some form of certification program.

The general discussion was, let’s take everybody’s NACE certificate or CWB or whatever their certifications were, take them and then issue a new card saying, “Okay, you’re now a certified INGAA pipeline inspector or CEPA pipeline inspector.”

We realized pretty early on that as industry associations, we’re great at establishing something, but we’re really poor at maintaining it. We can go out to bid. We can get other organizations to take care of this for us.

It became evident really quickly, because of the way API programs are set up and the recommended practice, that we needed to work collaboratively with API for them to be the actual individual certification body that would certify the inspectors.

It just proved out to be such a good way of doing it. When API was looking for subject matter experts to help with formulating questions based on the original API document, we as the industry said, “Yeah, we can do this.” Enbridge stepped up and said, “Sure. Use our facilities in Houston. Let’s get everybody together.”

We didn’t really understand the amount of input it would take. It went from “Let’s have a meeting once in a while, see what we can do” to a concerted effort where we were spending probably almost a week a month to generate questions and get that first exam out. I believe that was sometime in 2013.

Once we got through that and had an exam, then all the INGAA members were hugely supportive of it. It became the standard. We realized early on that if we didn’t take that initiative to say, “Okay, guys, we’ve done this, but now we want to use it. We want our inspectors to have this,” that it would never get traction.

By taking that real strong belief that it was the right thing to do, it improved acceptance by the overall pipeline industry.

Russel:  Ritch, you make a really interesting point about the value that API brings to the industry. Unique from some of the other industry organizations is their commitment to and their ability to support, implement, maintain, and keep current standards. That is a such a huge effort.

Ritch:  It is.

Russel:  You don’t appreciate that until you actually sit down with a group of people and try to write one of these standards, and then you begin to get a little bit of an appreciation. [laughs] At least, that’s my experience.

Ritch:  They have a process. When you look at the process, you say, “Boy, this is really rigorous. Why are we doing this?” By having that consistent rigorous process, it adds huge credibility. It’s not swayed by politics. It’s not swayed by the flavor of the day. It just gives you a good quality technical document. It’s wonderful.

Russel:  What is the content of 1169? What does 1169 contain, and how does that relate to certification?

Ritch:  The original 1169 was intended for new pipeline construction and was intended to cover all assets. All the ditching, strain, pipe handling, deferred welding, and coating to the welding certification organizations, coating to the National Association of Corrosion Engineers and their certifications.

The 1169 allowed an examination to take place for that minimally qualified inspector so that everybody was working from a common place. If we were asked by a regulator, by the public, “Okay, what are you guys doing to assure competency?” Competency isn’t just training or certification, but it’s one of the elements. It was one of the elements that we hadn’t done a good job of doing.

Lots of companies had their own individual programs, but it didn’t go across the whole industry. What the API program — Individual Certification Program — did is it allowed those inspectors to become certified, and then that certification was recognized regardless of what organization you went to work for.

If an Enbridge or a TC Energy decided they wanted to have additional training, it was not a problem. We were all starting from a common base.

Russel:  [laughs] It’s interesting. One of the things I’ve been learning through doing this podcast is how complicated and how many different technical domains are required to do a good job of pipeline construction. It’s like a lot of the things, it’s easy until you know enough about it.

Ritch:  Pipeline, it’s often been described as really simple. It’s round a hole in each end and all you gotta do is get it joined together, laid in a ditch so it’s not damaged, make sure the coating’s not damaged, make sure it’s properly supported, make sure it’s properly backfilled.

These inspectors that are certified to 1169 are the company’s last eyes and ears to make sure it’s being done properly. We need that to allow the public regulators and ourselves to have that confidence in that linear asset to keep supplying the energy that North America needs.

Andri:  Russel, if I can, for a second, too, you mentioned that the various domains when API started to scope out the knowledge that would be needed for this, we looked at it as a job function. What does this pipeline inspector need to know? We started to build the tiers of what do we need to test them on?

That set the structure of “this is what they need to know; these are the areas they need to know, and then where do we find the knowledge?” The 1169 provides a good basis for that.

Russel:  What is the ultimate safety impact of the 1169 program? I’m going to try to answer this a little bit myself, if you guys don’t mind, and then ask you to comment. One of the things that I’ve heard both of you guys say is an industry program and setting a baseline and some consistency.

How important is that as an industry program versus Operator A, Operator B, or Operator C has their program?

Andri:  You said it, the consistency. When you have Operator A, who has a program, and Operator B, who could be testing similar but yet differently, or having a program that doesn’t cover the same material, there becomes inconsistencies in the way things are done. Having the certification program assures everyone that there is a consistent base.

There’s a standard that everyone needs to follow and there’s a standard of knowledge that everyone needs to know, and that’s where they get started. If you’re familiar with what’s being covered under that certification program and within the standard and the qualifications needed to get into that, then you at least have a base that you know where you start.

When that person comes to you, that individual, the pool of candidates that we put in to the workforce, you can look at that, that they have a certification, then you can check the resume, then you can check whatever else your company requires of you to see if that’s an individual you want to bring onto your project.

Ritch:  Absolutely true, Andri, it gives us one source of truth for the qualification of the inspector. It’s vital.

Andri:  A lot of times, we find, even in other programs where companies are trying to maintain their own certification programs, it becomes costly. It’s not enough just to set up a program, but then you have to maintain it as well.

That becomes onerous on the company, not to mention the inconsistency that I mentioned earlier.

Russel:  Particularly for the smaller operator. It’s one thing for a very large operator to build and maintain a certification process. It’s a much, much different thing for a smaller operator to do that. Having it as an industry program, then it becomes more affordable and achievable across the entire industry.

Andri:  I think the individual sees the benefit, too. If you only have a certification, or if you’re only certified to one company, it’s only as good as long as you’re working with that company.

When you go to another company that may not be familiar with how you were certified, trained, what have you, it doesn’t have that same benefit to the individual than having an industry-recognized credential does.

Russel:  As we’re talking about this, this brings up another question for me. How does this impact the contractors?

Ritch:  As far as impacting the contractors, it gives them…It’s a couple of things. The more forward-thinking contractors have taken their own quality control people and been huge supporters of having them become certified as API 1169 inspectors.

The other thing is you know what to expect. I better be careful how I say that. You know what you think you should expect from inspectors in terms of qualifications, skills, and abilities. You have to add to that personalities, but it does give the contractor more faith that he’s going to be treated reasonably the same regardless of the company, project, or inspector that’s there.

Russel:  I would think also that as a construction contractor that knowing what the standard is for inspection and certification allows me to build my internal processes in a way that I’m heading toward those things versus it’d be a lot more complicated if it’s different for every customer.

Ritch:  Correct. Some of the contractors have subject matter experts that are actually helping with all the exam reviews, question rating, input into new editions. They’re deeply involved in the whole program. It’s got support from the owners, from the contractors.

We don’t have many regulatory people involved, but they spend enough time around us and participate in a way that they know what’s going on, and they’re very supportive of it.

Andri:  To have the program that’s set up and have that well-rounded standard, you need to include all of these folks in setting up the program in the first place. We have not just owner-operators who are involved in the program or in scoping out the program, but we also have the contractors involved.

The regulators are not so involved in the maintenance of the certification program, but they’re aware of it. They do pay attention to the document when it’s being reaffirmed and that sort of thing.

Russel:  That leads to another question as well. What the regulators are interested in is the output of the construction, both the actual constructed pipe and then all of the documentation about the constructed pipe. How does that impact 1169, or how is that related?

Ritch:  The way 1169 was developed, they used, as Andri pointed out early on, the source material from multiple owner-operators that had probably 80 percent overlap in the technical content. 1169 doesn’t deal with specific specifications, but it deals with the parts of a spec that need to be documented and confirmed.

You’re getting to the point that whether it’s paper, hard copy inspection reports, iPads, computer-generated reports, you’re actually getting factual information as opposed to opinions. The days of having an inspection report come in that says “another good day,” they’re quickly going away.

[laughter]

Russel:  There is so much bound up in that conversation right there, that statement right there, Ritch, that you could probably have a whole podcast just on that point.

Ritch:  Yes, there are people I work with that are far more passionate about it than I am.

[laughter]

Russel:  I’m sure that’s true. It’s like if I want to create these records, I need to realize that I’m creating these records for an engineer that’s going to follow me 10, 20, 50, 70 years down the road to try and understand how to operate and maintain this pipe that’s been constructed.

Ritch:  Right. Anytime there’s any kind of a failure, whether you have a hill stability or a line strike from an outside contractor, everybody wants to go back to those inspection reports and figure out what went on.

The more complete those inspection reports are, the easier it is for those doing the adjudication, be it regulator, compliance people within your organization, to understand what’s going on.

You get far less of these, “Well, Ritch, what’s this report really mean?” They can actually read it. They may phone and ask a technical question, but it’s becoming much more succinct and clear for people to read the stuff and understand what’s going on.

Russel:  I guess the question I would ask, not knowing anything about the content of 1169, is, are there guidelines in 1169 around how those records should be built and the kind of commentary that should be in them?

Ritch:  Yes, definitely. Especially with the second edition, there’s a lot more checklist content, what makes a good record, what’s in, what’s out.

You’re still reliant on the individual owner-operator and what they require, but it gives the inspector the basis to say, “This is the kind of information I’ve got to be looking for. Let’s make sure I gather all this. This will allow me to be able to complete the report for my client.”

Andri:  There was a lot of that that was pointed out in the CEPA and INGAA guidelines that we incorporated into the program, Ritch, that had a lot of the checklists that were needed.

Ritch:  Very true. It’s funny. When we started developing these checklists, I had this idea. We were going to come up with this voluminous tome of 400 pages of information. It was going to be this textbook to read. I saw the first edition. I’m sitting there. Well, what have we done? Everybody else in the room got it except me. I was the slow uptake. I eventually caught on.

It was a far better way of presenting information. Unlike a lot of construction management plans and specs that get written, people actually can use this document. It’s not filled with a lot of fluff. It’s a good document. It’s a strong document.

Russel:  What would you guys want to know? Construction is one of those silos, one of those domains within the broader area of pipelining in general. What should all pipeliners know about 1169?

Ritch:  We have a co-worker; an acquaintance. His expression is always, “1169 gives that guy that’s down in the mud, in the ditch, looking up at the guy with the iPad or the clipboard a way to get out of that ditch.”

He could have a career path to get into inspection. Up until this point, it wasn’t as clear of how he would ever get out of that ditch. He’s probably going to have to take some additional education.

I think Andri’s got some really good points on this. The fellow we work with that came up with this. It was so true. It gave that path for people to progress in their career.

Andri:  Yeah, I would agree with Ritch. Prior to this, you got into the industry. You were in the crafts and did one thing or another. You were in the ditch. You did that day after day. You would look up. Yes, our acquaintance did actually say, “You look up at the guy with the hard hat and the clipboard. You wonder, ‘How can I get out of doing this and getting to there?'”

With the certification program, we’ve laid out what are the qualifications you need if you’re in the ditch, if you’re doing inspection, if you’re doing general oil and gas inspection. There’s five different ways.

What we’ve done is formalize the pathway for people not only to just come in and do something day-to-day. If they do it day-to-day, how does that then get them to advance their career? If they get an additional training, if they get additional certification and then come through and get that 1169, maybe then they’re the guy with the hard hat and the clipboard. [laughs]

Ritch:  Exactly.

Russel:  Really, the best inspectors are the ones who have the most experience in the ditch.

Ritch:  No doubt about that.

Russel:  The folks that have the experience…I always say experience is what you get when you got what you didn’t want.

[laughter]

Russel:  Wisdom is learning the right thing from the experience.

Andri:  Right. One of the goals of the group, though, as we were laying out the qualifications — because there were lengthy, lengthy, lengthy discussions and maybe some disagreements along the way — us they wanted to ensure that it wasn’t there was only one way into this, that you had to be doing just pipeline work.

They wanted to ensure that there was a way for those who are working in the other heavy industries to also have a pathway to getting into something better and to be able to advance their careers and to be able to have a career pathway. Like I said, there’s five different paths you can take to getting your 1169.

Russel:  Awesome. You guys shared with me this career guide for pipeline inspectors and a roadmap for navigating the pipeline industry. As we’ve been sitting here talking, I’ve been scanning through this.

[laughs] I wish I’d had this when I started doing the podcast. This is like, “Okay, here’s a roadmap for pipeline podcasters, and everything you need to talk about so people can have some level of experience or exposure to it.”

Ritch:  That was a problem for all of us in the industry, because we did it, we understood it. You’d go to things like the Pipeline Safety Trust, do a presentation on API 1169, and you’d get questions like, “What did you have before this?”

We didn’t have anything. We had in-house programs. We had on-the-job training. People were quite dismayed by the fact that 1169 had brought the industry so far forward.

Russel:  That’s interesting.

Andri:  Yeah, and I would say, initially, when folks were coming through for the certification, it was a little bit of a learning curve for them as well, to say, “Why do I need this?” Initially, [laughs] I would say probably the first couple of years, it was, “I’m doing this because it’s required for me to work.”

Hopefully, after five or six years, I think maybe going on seven, that the program’s been out, hopefully, people have seen what their personal gain is to coming through this, as well. There’s a better understanding of there’s a qualification you have to go through.

There’s certain criteria you have to meet before you even are allowed to sit for the exam and show that you have an aptitude. The first couple of years was, I think, people were just doing because they were told. Hopefully, now, there’s a learning situation that’s occurred that there’s a benefit to the individual for this as well.

Russel:  Right.

Ritch:  Initially, part of the challenge was, “Okay, Ritch, you guys have come up with this, now we’re trying to train our inspectors to go through this.” The biggest pushback we got is, “These guys haven’t written an exam in 40 years. They’re just incensed. Will you come to one of our training courses?”

“Sure.” I went in. Everybody proceeds to tell me that, “No, no, they can’t do this. This is horribly unfair. How could we make them do that?”

We figured out pretty quickly if we gave them a practice exam so they…It wasn’t they didn’t know the information, they just didn’t know how to take exams. You were doing two sets of training. You were training them on what information they needed. You were training them how to take a multiple-choice exam. It was incredible.

Russel:  I’m speculating here, so again, I’d like to hear you guys comment, but I would think that one of the things that happens by putting a program together like this, where you begin to structure and define, here’s all the specific skills and competencies that you need, it creates a more efficient conversation among all those trades about what’s needed or required. Not just to get the certification, but to actually do the work.

Ritch:  Correct.

Andri:  Yeah.

Russel:  It takes some of the ambiguity and the guesswork out of things.

Ritch:  There’s no doubt. It took all that guesswork out. The conversation’s completely changed. Now, you don’t have people that are afraid of the examination. You don’t have people that are concerned with writing the examination.

You have people that want to challenge various questions. The whole nature of any kind of discussion about API 1169 is changed from, “Do we really need this? Why are we doing it?” to, “Okay, how can we do this better?”

Russel:  Right. That actually is a great tee-up for how I want to wrap this up. I wanted to ask you guys what’s next as it relates to pipeline inspection certification?

Andri:  We continue to maintain the 1169. As Ritch will tell you, we’ve also been engaged in what is that next tier, right? We talked about a career pathway. We’ve been working on the Facilities Inspector Program, which will come next.

Russel:  That makes perfect sense. That makes perfect sense.

Ritch:  It’s just so good to see that an industry that was…Maybe we weren’t that good at promoting all the good stuff we did. We didn’t explain to people that they enjoyed having the energy. We were trying to supply them energy in a safe, efficient manner.

Now we’re doing something to make sure that we have good base qualifications. We’re keeping an eye on what we’re doing, how we’re doing it, and the qualifications of the people that are doing it.

Russel:  I think that’s very well said, Ritch. I think that’s very well said. We’ll leave it there. Thank you very much, Andri and Ritch.

This has been an education for me. I feel like I know a little bit about what 1169 actually is. I would say that it’s different than what I was assuming. I really appreciate the conversation. [laughs]

Andri:  I really appreciate you having us both on and having the opportunity to talk both about the document and the certification program that was started probably just before I came on to API. I’ve been able to work through it and work with Ritch and others in the industry to make sure that it meets with the industry needs.

Russel:  Great.

Ritch:  Yeah, it’s been a wonderful opportunity to collaborate between industry, API, some of the industry associations, and the support. There’s been times when people will, “Why are we doing this?”

In the end, because everybody kept the true issue there, that it’s about education. It’s about information. It’s never been a problem. It’s had its bumps, but, boy, it’s sure got traction.

Russel:  You always know that it’s working when it just becomes accepted as, “We’ve always done it this way because it’s the right way to do it.” I think that’s where we’re getting to with 1169.

Ritch:  Yeah, I’m very pleased to have the opportunity to be invited to talk about it. Thank you, Russel.

Andri:  Thank you, Russel.

Russel:  I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode of the Pipeliners Podcast and our conversation with Ritch and Andri. Just a reminder before you go, you should register to win our customized Pipeliners Podcast YETI tumbler. Simply visit pipelinepodcastnetwork.com/win to enter yourself in the drawing.

If you’d like to support the podcast, please leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Google Play, or on your smart device podcast app. You could find instructions at pipelinepodcastnetwork.com.

[music]

Russel:  If you have ideas, questions, or topics you’d be interested in, please let me know on the Contact Us page at pipelinepodcastnetwork.com or reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. I’ll talk to you next week.

Transcription by CastingWords