This week’s Pipeliners Podcast episode features Terri Lason discussing the updates made to API RP 1162, Public Awareness Programs for Pipeline Operators, and how much communication and public awareness programs have changed since 2003 when the First Edition of RP 1162 was published.
In this episode, you will learn about why an update to API RP 1162 was necessary, how social media has become ta key communication channel for public awareness programs, and how the Third Edition helps advance pipeline safety.
API 1162 New Revision 3: Show Notes, Links & Insider Terms
- Terri Larson is the owner of Larson Communication & Consulting. Connect with Terri on LinkedIn.
- API (American Petroleum Institute) is a national trade association that represents all aspects of America’s oil and natural gas industry.
- RP 1162 is an industry consensus standard that provides guidance and recommendations to pipeline operators for the development and implementation of enhanced public awareness programs.
- The Public Awareness Rule is a set of PHMSA pipeline safety regulations that require pipeline operators to conduct continuing public awareness programs to provide pipeline safety information to stakeholder audiences.
- 811 (Call Before You Dig) is the federally designated call-before-you-dig phone number, designed to make the notification step of the safe excavation process as easy as possible. A person is required to call the 811 number 48 to 72 hours before beginning any excavation or digging projects to allow time for locators to mark the approximate location of any buried infrastructure before excavation begins. Prior to the implementation of 811, people who dug had to know one-call center’s 800 number, or notify utilities individually.
- Right-of-Way is a strip of land encompassing buried pipelines and other natural gas equipment allowing them to be permanently located on public and/or private land to provide natural gas service.
- SWOT Analysis examines the brand by its strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats.
- PHMSA (Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration) ensures the safe transportation of energy and hazardous materials.
- API RP 1173 established the framework for operators to implement Pipeline Safety Management Systems (SMS). A significant part of this recommended practice is a training and competency aspect.
- PipelineSMS.org is a useful resource with various safety tools that was developed by pipeline operators to help other operators enhance safety in their operation. Read the website resources or email email@example.com with inquiries.
- The Plan-Do-Check-Act Cycle (PDCA) is embedded in Pipeline SMS as a continuous quality improvement model consisting of a logical sequence of four repetitive steps for continuous improvement and learning
- Listen to the podcast Russel mentioned featuring Jason Dalton discussing leak detections and revisions to API 1130 and 1175 here.
API 1162 New Revision 3: Full Episode Transcript
Russel Treat: Welcome to “The Pipeliners Podcast” episode 249, sponsored by Burns & McDonnell, delivering pipeline projects with an integrated construction and design mindset, connecting all the elements, design, procurement, and sequencing at the site.
Burns & McDonnell uses its vast knowledge, the latest technology, and an ownership commitment to safely deliver innovative, quality projects. Burns & McDonnell is designed to build and keep it all connected. Learn more at burnsmcd.com.
Announcer: The Pipeliners Podcast, where professionals, Bubba geeks, and industry insiders share their knowledge and experience about technology, projects, and pipeline operations. And now, your host, Russel Treat.
Russel: Thanks for listening to The Pipeliners Podcast. I appreciate you taking the time, and to show the appreciation, we give away a customized YETI tumbler to one listener every episode. This week, our winner is Gunnar Johnson with Marathon Pipeline. Congratulations, Gunnar, your YETI is on its way. To learn how you can win this signature prize, stick around until the end of the episode.
This week, Terri Larson with Larson Communications is joining us to talk about the new revision three to API 1162, Public Awareness for Pipeline Operators. Terri, welcome to The Pipeliners Podcast.
Terri Larson: Hey, Russel. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Russel: As I often do, or frequently do, with guests, I’d like to you give us a little bit about your background and how you found yourself being on the API 1162 committee.
Terri: [laughs] I am a long-time communicator. My background is in communications. I started my career actually working in the news media and then transitioned over to public relations. Somewhere in there, in a very meandering career path, I found myself at Enbridge in 2005.
Once I was there, I was given responsibility for what was the public awareness program that was being developed, because the first edition of 1162 had just been incorporated by reference into regulation. Everybody was having to now adjust what had been public education and liaison programs into a public awareness program. That was one of the first tasks that I had when I joined Enbridge in 2005.
Just as I moved up with the company and public awareness continued to be part of my accountability, and at some point, I guess in 2016, 2017, somebody asked me if I would chair the task group tasked or charged with creating the third edition. For some reason, I said yes.
Terri: Still not quite sure how that happened.
Russel: [laughs] I’ve talked to a lot of people that chaired API committees, and I think that’s a pretty common, “Somebody asked, and somehow, I said yes.”
Terri: Yeah, so here we are. I guess five, maybe six, years later. We just published the third edition on August 11, which is 811 Day, or National Call Before You Dig Day. We’re pretty proud of that.
Russel: That’s awesome. I find it pretty fascinating that somebody that worked in the news media found their way into pipelining. That just tells me that there are all kinds of career paths, and who knows how they’re going to roll out, right?
Terri: That’s absolutely the truth. As long as you’re open to the meandering path of wherever it takes you, you never know where you land.
Russel: Yeah, the same is true for me. Completely different, and yet completely the same. It’s like, my career path makes no sense until you get to this point in my career and look backwards. You go, “Oh, that’s how all that came together.”
Terri: Right. [laughs]
Russel: Look, let’s talk about 1162. What was driving the need to do an update, get a third revision out?
Terri: The first edition was published in 2003, and it was a really good first step. Pipeline operators already had, as I mentioned, public education programs on the books. They already had programs on their books to liaise with emergency responders, but there had been a few significant incidents in late 1990s, really early 2000s.
It became clear that we needed something more. That’s where that first edition of 1162 came from. There’s so much that has changed since 2003 in the way that we all communicate.
Russel: That’s exactly what I was going to ask you, Terri, is what was the state of how you did public awareness, how you engaged with media and engaged with the public in 2003?
Terri: It was direct mail, and to some extent, face-to face-conversations with people who lived along the right-of-way with a right-of-way agent, or with local operations personnel, and that was really the extent of it. What 1162 did was help operators, or provide a framework for operators, to create these programs where they could do more.
Now, many of them were still using direct mail once their programs were in place. That didn’t really change for a while and is still a big part of most operators’ programs. If you think of everything that’s changed since 2003 in the way that we communicate, there was no social media.
There was very little use of digital platforms. Some websites, but that’s really when companies in general were starting to make use of websites. When you think today of text messaging and all these different technological ways of communicating with people, that didn’t really exist then.
There’s a lot of change that’s happened between then and now just in how we all communicate and in how people want to get information.
Another big driver of this was a SWOT analysis that PHMSA led, beginning in 2013, and they published a report in 2016, that identified risks, opportunities, and some overall themes that could be incorporated in an eventual revision, a third edition, because there had already been a second edition that was not incorporated into regulation.
An industry-led group took a really good and hard look at that SWOT analysis and then came with a list of some key themes and some key items that really bubbled up and needed to be looked at. In the first edition, the baseline message requirements, just as one example, there were 13 or 14 baseline messages.
As a communicator, and anyone who’s run these programs knows, that’s just too much information, especially when you’re trying to put it in one direct mail piece. It’s too much information. People were throwing them in the recycle bin or throwing them in the trash bin and not really reading the information.
That was a big hurdle that we needed to try to address. Streamlining those messages was a big one. Clarifying terms that were, oddly enough, confusing. Liaison – and we found this when we started the third edition – there really is no actual definition of liaison that runs across all these federal agencies that require it.
We went back to the dictionary and said, “OK, well, how does Webster define liaison? Let’s start there.” Some of those terms that seem pretty basic for our industry, but really, had never been clearly defined, were things that we needed to address in this third edition so that operators could actually succeed in those programs.
There are some really good collaborative programs out there, and it wasn’t really clear, and they’re not addressed in the first edition at all. Then it really has been a gray area for operators of when is it appropriate to use a collaborative program, and how do I do that and still make sure that my information is included? Does my information need to be included?
That was another thing we really needed to do in this third edition, was provide some guidance for operators on how to better use those collaborative opportunities when they do arise.
Russel: For somebody who’s a novice in public awareness, what is a collaborative program?
Terri: A collaborative program is an opportunity for operators to collaborate and work together. If there’s common messaging, for example, or a common stakeholder holder, 811, National Call Before You Dig, is a great example of collaboration.
There are a lot of programs that operators participate in to promote 811 and that National Call Before You Dig number. Emergency response, if I had a dime for every time I’ve been told by an emergency response official, “Can you guys just get together, and we can have one meeting with all of you guys in our area instead of 10 or 12 different, completely separate meetings where you’re telling us the same thing?”
Some of it is stakeholder driven, and some of it is operator driven, and just needing a way for these programs to be more effective overall, but also more cost effective as well. It’s just an easier way to communicate.
Russel: It’s more effective, too.
Russel: It’s interesting, and I’m a novice at the whole communications thing. I do this podcast and such, and I have a notion about these things. There’s some things I do know about messaging. The more content you try to communicate, the less likely it is to stick.
The more people you have communicating the same message, the less likely it is to stick. Really, program effectiveness in this domain is about making the message sticky.
Terri: Correct. That’s exactly right. We want people to be willing to speak with us, to be willing to receive information. We want them to recall the information that we’re giving them, retain it in some way, whether it’s in their head, or maybe it’s a magnet on the fridge.
File that brochure away, or whatever that is that they got, so that they have it when they need it, or they can quickly recall that information. If they need to call a pipeline operator’s emergency number, they’re not having to look online and trying to figure out who they need to call.
They already have that information, and they’ve retained it in some way. The more fingers that are on that, or in the middle of that communication, the harder it is sometimes for those stakeholders to actually retain that information. That’s a very good point.
Russel: There’s this whole conversation, too, and I want to unpack this a little bit, around social media. If you look at 2003 and the nature of media then, we were just beginning to get into the 24/7 news cycle. We really didn’t have internet communications yet.
There were people doing some interesting things on the internet, and there was some dial-up stuff going on on bulletin boards but not a lot. Not things that were actually widely adopted and widely used. Now, we’ve got a 24/7 news cycle, and that has implications.
There’s a lot more noise, a lot more ways to get information, a lot more information out there. There’s a lot going on around all that. I want to back up a little bit, though. Is there anything else that came out of the SWOT analysis that people ought to know about?
Terri: Yeah, one other big one that I wanted to touch on is behavior change. This was a big point in the first edition from a measurement standpoint. Operators needed to be able to show, as part of their effectiveness measure, whether people had changed their behaviors.
Did that individual actually call 811 or their state one-call center before they began a digging project? Did they actually do something that we wanted them to do or take an action we wanted them to take? It’s a very difficult thing to measure, because unless you’re talking to every single person that you’ve had those communications with…
For smaller operators, that may not have been a big list, but for medium to large operators, that’s near impossible. It’s very difficult to determine, did someone’s behavior actually change? That came out. That was an issue with the first edition. It came out in the SWOT analysis as well and was identified as one of those big ticket items, if you will, that we needed to deal with in the third edition.
What we did in the third edition – and this is an area where peer reviews of other industries really benefited us, which was part of our research process – was we changed it to behavior intent. If you and I are having a conversation, Russel, and I ask you, “Will you call 811 before you dig next time in your backyard?” and you say, “Yes, Terri. I absolutely will. I understand why that’s important,” I can measure your intent.
You’ve just told me that you’re intending to take an action, without needing to actually measure or find out, did you actually make that phone call? That enables better conversations. It enables deeper conversations between operators and their stakeholders, and it actually gives operators a way to measure behavior through intent, versus an actual behavior change.
That was a big one that we had to really unpack for the third edition.
Russel: That’s a very, it’s subtle, is the word that that comes up to me. It’s not the same thing, and intent is not the outcome. We, as engineers and pipeliners, we’re very outcome focused. This is, it’s a different way of thinking about things.
Terri: It took a little while for all of us on the task group to really wrap our heads around it, but this is something that’s been used in the chemical industry and other peer industries very successfully as a way to measure this very thing, will people do what you’re asking them to do?
Part of that is you need to be a trusted source of information, but they also, you need to get to that intent, and their agreement with it. That’s ultimately where we came down to on behavior change, and behavior intent in particular.
Russel: That whole thing about behavior, changing behavior in terms of the behavior you’re looking to create, and then changing behavior in terms of what’s actually going on and how people are engaging with information, that moves faster than the regulatory process. I’ll just say that.
Terri: It does, yes. I’ll say, the regulators were on board, really on board with understanding a need to do something different there. They still needed a metric. They still needed something around behavior in order to gauge effectiveness of programs, but recognized that behavior change itself was an issue.
It wasn’t setting operators up to succeed with their programs, because it’s very subjective. It’s not something that they can actually effectively measure. That became very important.
Russel: I want to dig a little bit more into this whole social media conversation. I’ve done some stuff on public awareness. In fact, I did a presentation on public awareness and pipeline safety management, but it was very high level and more related to the process of improvement, not so much the details of the techniques and the analysis.
What is going on with social media on the day that we’re recording this, August 19, 2022? What is the current state of social media? How is it impacting this type of thing?
Terri: If you look at the stats on social media – and it’s been a few months since I’ve looked at them, but I don’t think they’ve changed a whole lot – more than half the world’s population is on social media. There are many, many platforms. When we say social media, that includes many different platforms.
A lot of people get their news on social media. When Facebook first started, as one example, most of what we saw were pet pictures, or, “Here’s what I’m eating for dinner,” or, “Here’s the plate of food I made for lunch.” It was very fluffy.
What we have learned since then, across a variety of platforms, is that people are using them now more and more to actually get information, to get usable information. I mentioned that more than half the world’s population is on social media, more than 80 percent of the US population is on social media.
It’s become a very powerful way to get information in front of people in a way that, and in a format that, they’re used to absorbing information. Short videos, posts of go do the 811, and 811 Day are really good examples of good use of social media.
That’s where we get a lot of that messaging across to make sure you call before you go dig in your backyard. Don’t be that guy who cuts off the internet to your neighborhood at Super Bowl weekend or cuts the cable line that feeds your neighborhood at Super Bowl weekend.
People are on social media, and if we’re not communicating there, and we don’t have the flexibility to communicate there as pipeline operators, we’re missing a really big opportunity to get key information on pipeline safety in front of people.
Russel: The whole 811 thing, I think that’s an interesting conversation. August 11, 811, there’s a lot going on. Phillips 66 does a cool program where they send socks out to influencers and advocates, fancy, colorful socks. I always get a kick out of that.
I always take a picture, and I post it on my LinkedIn. It gets lots more engagement than the normal things that I do. It’s a really interesting program, and I think it’s a very effective use of social media.
Yesterday, there was a backhoe that showed up right in front of my house. They were working on the irrigation system around my neighborhood for all the common areas and such. They got out there and started digging. I walked out there, I said, “Did you guys call before you dig? Where’s the markings?”
Terri: [laughs] Nice.
Russel: They’re like, “Uh, what?”
Terri: Yeah, I’ve had contractors come to do work on our back yard and with no intent of calling 811. Now, it’s a little different, because I’m an industry insider, have helped write some of this messaging, and so on. If you’re going down deeper than 16 inches, you’ve got to call. What do you mean you didn’t call?
There was a new internet company up north of Houston where we live. Now, most of our utilities are underground here, so it’s very congested, to be fair, but they were hitting gas lines and sprinkler lines. Pretty much every turn they made, they were hitting something. It caused a lot of local frustration, a lot of local discussion on social media and so on.
Russel: You and I are insiders, so we have a particular view to that. Really, the goal we’re trying to get to is get everybody in the neighborhood to get to that view.
Terri: We have a neighborhood Facebook page. I’m not friends on Facebook with all of my neighbors. Some of them I like. Some of them I don’t like. Some of them I would never be friends with, and so on.
When I share something, or when they share something to that neighborhood Facebook page, then you see it. It makes you sit up and take notice. There are so many ways – NextDoor is another good one – for that local community engagement.
There are so many ways to get information, to use social media platforms to get that really critical pipeline safety information to our stakeholders that operators with the third edition will have the flexibility to use. Now, it’s probably not going to be their baseline program, because they still need to have documentation.
With anything regulatory, if it’s not documented, it didn’t actually happen. There still needs to be a form of documentation, but certainly, that’s where people are. If we don’t start communicating with people where they are, then we’re missing that opportunity.
Russel: The whole conversation about documentation, in the original 1162, pretty easy to document how many pieces of direct mail did I send, how frequently did I send them, where I sent them, and what was in the messaging. That’s pretty easy to document, but that may or may not have anything to do with effectiveness.
Then likewise, I can document what I put out on social media, but getting it to where I’m actually getting to my target, and am I hitting my target, that’s a whole different challenge.
Terri: That’s a different ballgame. That’s right. That’s where, on the measurement side, there’s surveys. There’s all kinds of ways to determine, did you reach the people you needed to reach? Did they recall the information that you gave them? Are they intending to change some behavior?
That’s where that measurement piece really comes in, and through the use of surveys, you can determine those numbers. One of the things that we realized as we were going through the third edition, and particularly as we did the peer review of other industries, was that the operators have been measuring the effectiveness of their programs since the first edition became effective. That in itself isn’t new.
Of all the different survey instruments, and I’m just using surveys right now, because it’s like direct mail. It’s a good one you can do across the board with large groups or small groups. Every survey instrument was using different survey questions.
Even though we had been as an industry for years comparing apples to apples, we didn’t have apples to apples to compare in reality. What we’ve done in the third edition is we’ve said, “Here’s a baseline set of survey questions.” You can customize, to an extent. Natural gas versus crude oil and so on, or the type of pipeline operator you are, transmission, gathering, or distribution.
There are some ways that you can customize those questions, but everybody needs to use these questions. Then here are some other ones that you could use, if you wanted to find out something else, or dig a little deeper in one area or another, or add in your own extra questions.
These first set of questions, these core, baseline questions, you’ve got to use. We’ll be able to get to a point where we truly have an apples to apples comparison across the industry, which is important.
Russel: It’s very important. Absolutely, very important, and really compelling, the idea that we even have the ability to get there, and really understand what’s the level of engagement with the messaging. What about advocating for pipelines as a safe mechanism of transportation? Does that have correlation or relation to 1162?
Terri: It does, it’s just not a baseline message anymore in its pure form. If you go back to the first edition, one of our baseline messages was around pipeline purpose and reliability. What role do they play? What do they allow us to do in today’s society?
That message is still there. It’s just not a baseline, required message anymore. Again, going back to what had been identified in the first edition and through PHMSA SWOT analysis, the need to streamline messages, that was one we said, “It’s an important message.”
We need people to understand what pipelines are and what they allow us all to do, but there are other messages that are more important from a baseline perspective. It’s still there.
Russel: I think that makes really good sense.
I guess, being a software guy and a data guy, where my mind goes with all of this is, the minute you start having these baseline questions, and then some other common questions – maybe not baseline, but they’re commonly asked – and you start collecting that across the industry, and then consolidating and analyzing that, there’s a huge amount of value in terms of improving your messaging that can come out of that.
Terri: Absolutely, and refine. Everything is about refining. That’s a key component of the plan-do-check-act framework that was introduced with RP 1173, the Pipeline Safety Management System. We’ve added that to 1162. It’s built now on this framework of the PDCA process.
Act is a big part of that, which is acting on what you’ve learned, acting on what you’ve found during the check phase, making those changes as you need to make those changes. Pipeline operators, we were already doing that with our public awareness programs, because there was a requirement previously to continuously improve those programs.
If we had a conversation, and it clearly didn’t go super well, for whatever reason, then there would be that requirement to maybe change things up a little bit before we had the next conversation to make sure that you’re absorbing the information that I want you to absorb. Now, that’s built in through that PDCA process, which formalizes it a little bit more.
Russel: I think it’s really important, particularly for when standards that are incorporated by reference, that that kind of thing begins to get into the standards.
In particular, 1162 and public awareness, and because of the way that media works and communications works, it’s going to be impossible to write a standard that has any shelf life at all if it doesn’t become more a PDCA kind of, “Here’s your baseline, here’s what you’re trying to accomplish, here’s some recommended methods, but here’s what we want to actually measure.”
How we measure that, we leave up to the operator, because we realize that things are a changin’.
Terri: They are, indeed, and one of the things that we’ve tried to do with the third edition is focus our minimum requirements on a process or a method to get something done. A process to identify stakeholders, versus some different language that might have been used in the past. Having that process to get that done in your program.
Russel: There’s a whole podcast series in that conversation right there. I would assert that one of the big challenges we’re going to have in the industry over the next decade is moving from a procedures mindset to a process quality mindset.
Terri: Yeah, I think that’s right.
Russel: It’s a different way of thinking about the business.
Terri: When we implemented that on 1162, it changed the way that I looked at some of these other standards that are in development. I had an opportunity, as did others, to review an early draft of a new RP, 1185, which is focused on stakeholder engagement.
One of my first comments was, “This needs to be more process oriented, so the operators have a chance to succeed at what it is that you’re asking them to do.” They can define the ins and outs of that process for themselves. They’re very smart people, but give them guidance on the process.
Russel: I’m curious what the reaction was you got when you put that out there.
Terri: I haven’t heard anything yet, so stay tuned. I’ll let you know. [laughs]
Russel: That is becoming thematic. I had Jason Dalton on the podcast to talk about API 1175 and 1130, as they’ve both been recently updated. We talked about this, particularly as it relates to 1175, which is leak detection program management, versus 1130, which is using a computer to detect leaks.
I’m paraphrasing a bit, but I think you get what I mean. Look, I want to ask this question, if I could, Terri. How is the new 1162 actually going to improve pipeline safety?
Terri: In a few ways. It’s difficult, because this is the soft skills piece of pipeline and pipeline operations.
One of the new components that’s been added in – this was driven by PHMSA – was a recognition that, as new lines are built into an existing corridor, as one example, that introduce new hazards to a community, instead of waiting for your next program cycle to communicate what those new hazards may be, assuming they have not previously been communicated, go ahead and get a communication out to those stakeholders so they know what those hazards are, the new hazards that have been introduced.
That’s one area, one example. Anytime you’re refining your communication channel so that you’re communicating with people more effectively and getting them information in a more effective way, you’re improving safety, because you’re getting their attention on key information.
There’s a number of ways like that, certainly, that 1162 does advance safety, and that was a key discussion early on with our state and federal regulatory partners, and continued to be throughout. Every time we made a change, “How does this advance safety? Does this advance safety, or are we spinning our wheels in an area that doesn’t do anything in that area?”
That was a big focus for the task group throughout the process.
Russel: Interesting. Then I guess just to wrap this whole conversation up, what do you think pipeliners ought to know about public awareness today?
Terri: Oh, jeez, that’s a whole hour-long conversation at least in itself, I think. [laughs] For anyone outside of the program management side for public awareness, it’s a good program. It’s a good program to be part of. There’s really solid, necessary information that needs to be communicated to your stakeholders in an operating area.
Too often, we see pushback from the field. They are very busy. They have day jobs that are very strenuous, and they don’t necessarily have the time or want to be part of conveying some of that information, but they are a key part of that delivery system when we think of information delivery.
It would be to look at public awareness programs and the people who run those programs as partners in pipeline safety, because everybody who works for a pipeline operator is focused on safe operations, safe delivery of product, and making sure that everything that’s supposed to get from point A to point B does so, and that everybody goes home safely at the end of the day.
Public awareness programs are a big part of that. That’s one way to get information across on damage prevention. If you were to strike a pipeline, here’s what you need to do, and here’s when you need to do it, which is pretty quick. Here’s how to recognize. Here’s how to know what a pipeline marker looks like and what information is available to you on those markers.
We’re supporting the field. We’re supporting those actual field operations through public awareness programs, and it’s a critical component of pipeline safety overall.
Russel: I think that’s well said. I might have a slightly different take, and this probably comes from the standpoint of I have more of an operations background than public awareness. I think effective public awareness is actually a way to improve operations effectiveness, because if you have the public aware, you’re going to get phone calls that you wouldn’t otherwise get.
You’re going to get communication that you would not otherwise get. The example of the guy with the backhoe out in front of my house, an educated public is going to go out and say, “Hey, did you call 811 on this? How deep are you digging?”
Terri: That’s absolutely right. We need them to be aware. We need them to know. There’s awareness. Awareness of pipelines, their purpose, everything that the operations teams do every day to keep things running safely. There’s knowledge of, if you were to see that backhoe, what do you do?
If you were to see what looks like suspicious activity in a pipeline right of way, what do you do? If you were to see oil spraying in your neighborhood, clearly, that’s not what’s supposed to happen, so what do you do? There’s things we want them to be aware of.
There’s things we want them to know so that they can take very specific actions. That communication comes through those public awareness programs.
Russel: Right, yeah, exactly. Listen, Terri, I really get a kick out of talking with you. You’re so knowledgeable on this subject, it’s really fun. Again, I’m coming back around to your career path, from the news media to pipelining. You should write an article about that or something. That’d be interesting.
Terri: There are some other interesting stops between news media and pipelining, too, that make people shake their heads.
Terri: For me, it’s about the communication challenges and opportunities, and whether I can have an impact, and my skill sets and experience can bring some change. Different industries may seem really different on the top, and they are, but underlying communication challenges are often the same.
Russel: The fundamentals are always the same, right? The fundamentals are always the same, regardless of whatever context you’re playing in right, right?
Russel: Listen, this has been fun. I definitely am going to have to have you back.
Terri: Sounds good to me.
Russel: All right. Take care.
Terri: Thank you.
Russel: I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode of The Pipeliners Podcast and our conversation with Terri. Just a reminder before you go. You should register to win our cool customized Pipeliners Podcast Yeti tumbler. Simply visit PipelinePodcastNetwork.com/Win and enter yourself in the drawing.
Russel: If you have ideas, questions, or topics you’d be interested in, please let me know, either on the Contact Us page at PipelinePodcastNetwork.com or reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. I’ll talk to you next week.
Transcription by CastingWords