In this episode of the Pipeline Technology Podcast, host Russel Treat interviews Mary Ann Faremouth from Faremouth & Company about the challenges and strategies in finding and retaining the next generation of pipeline professionals.
Mary Ann shares her extensive experience as a recruiter in the energy sector, discussing the unique aspects of pipeline staffing, the importance of adapting to change, and innovative approaches to sourcing new talent. They explore the significance of transferable skills, onboarding, and aligning job roles with individual passions for long-term success.
Finding and Retaining the Next Generation of Pipeliners Show Notes, Links, and Insider Terms
- Mary Ann Faremouth is an award-winning author, syndicated columnist, professional speaker, and CEO of a national recruiting firm. She hosts the “Career Can Do” podcast and is known for her unique recruiting method that aligns the whole person to the job. Connect with Mary Ann on LinkedIn.
- Books written by Mary Ann Faremouth
- Visit Faremouth.com for more information.
Finding and Retaining the Next Generation of Pipeliners Full Episode Transcript
Announcer: The “Pipeline Technology Podcast,” brought to you by “Pipeline & Gas Journal,” the decision-making resource for pipeline and midstream professionals. Now, your host, Russel Treat.
Russel Treat: Welcome to the Pipeline Technology Podcast, episode 48. On this episode, our guest is Mary Ann Faremouth with Faremouth & Company. We’re going to talk to Mary Ann about finding and retaining the next generation of pipeliners. Mary Ann, welcome to the Pipeline Technology Podcast.
Mary Ann Faremouth: Thank you for having me, Russel. It’s great to be here.
Russel: Before we dive in, maybe you could tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, and what you do, and how you happened to be interested in pipeline and pipeline technology.
Mary Ann: I’m happy to do that. My name is Mary Ann Faremouth. I’ve been a recruiter that focuses in on the energy sector for almost 40 years. I’ve written three books about the job market, about how to be your best self and find that best job. I’m a podcaster also. I have a show, Career Can Do, and I’m a nationally syndicated columnist.
Russel, I write and speak about ways that employers, employees can have more success in their searches, in their job, in their companies. I’m just thrilled to be here to share what I know with your listeners.
Russel: Awesome. I know for a lot of people in the pipeline world, there’s a lot of interest in where are we going to find the new talent? Where do we find the next generation of pipeliners? I think the first question I want to ask is how is staffing a pipelining position different maybe than other industries.
What’s unique or different about pipelining versus some of the other industry verticals you may have worked in?
Mary Ann: I think it’s different because I think we’ve done things for many years in one way, and we’re used to doing them that way and they don’t work anymore as well. I think that we also, in the pipeline industry, and I think in some others, but I think mainly too, in the pipeline industry, we have an unprecedented talent shortage.
I think historically the reason for that really is back in World War II, after the war, we had a surge in population. We’ve never had a surge in population. We’re also like that since that time. All those babies that were born back then, who are now referred to as the baby boomers, they’re all retiring.
For every four that retires, we have one available candidate. That means you have a gap, you have a shortage. When you have a shortage of any commodity, whether it’s potatoes, generators, or people, what happens? Prices go up.
We have a shortage of candidates, specifically, in the energy industry. We’re all strapped, we’re all challenged to find ways to circumvent the problem and find good people to work in these companies. Historically, that’s part of the reason.
It’s different in the pipeline industry because the pipeline industry traditionally looks for people with certain qualifications, with certain backgrounds. If they’re not out there, it’s like, “We don’t want to change. We’re resistant to change.” It’s getting everybody to understand we have to change or we’re going to leave these jobs open for a long time.
Russel: That’s extremely well said, Mary Ann. I certainly am finding that. We have a position that we’ve been working to fill for six months now and we’ve gotten close a couple of times, but we haven’t actually got it over the finish line. I’m certainly finding it to be tougher.
The whole conversation about we have a way that we do things, we also have ways that we hire, we have places that we historically go and look for talent to hire. The fish ain’t nearly as abundant as it used to be in those ponds. That’s the way a Texas boy would say it.
Mary Ann: No, and you hit on something that’s really important. We got to fish in different ponds because we’re not catching the fish in the old ponds. We got to look at other ponds.
Russel: What are some of the places that people ought to be looking? What ponds are they all be looking at?
Mary Ann: We need to look at transferable skills. My claim to fame is longevity. By that I mean, I’m proud to say that people that I place, stay a long time. I belong to many energy organizations, I go to these conferences, I speak at a lot of them, and I see people I placed 10, 12, 18 years ago.
The reason for that, I’m proud to say, is that I look at who the person is, what’s important to them, where their passions are, and I try to align them with positions that fit those. When we do a placement like that, Russel, in my opinion, we have a bigger chance, a higher probability of having those people stay. Does that make sense?
Russel: Yeah, that’s interesting. I’ve never thought about that. As I’m listening to you talk, one of the things that’s coming up for me is this idea of staffing versus placement because staffing is, I got a need, I find a body, I put the body against the need, versus placement is, I have these needs and I have these people and where does it match up well? That’s a different way of thinking about it, frankly.
Mary Ann: It is. When we’ve been doing things one way for so long, it’s just human nature, we’re resistant to change. The reality is, from my side of the desk, we don’t have a choice. We have to change or these positions are not going to get filled. If they don’t get filled, the productivity is affected, the bottom line is affected.
Russel: Not only the productivity, but also the safety performance, and that’s a big deal in our business. It’s also one of the reasons where resistance to change is change does have a safety impact…
Mary Ann: It does.
Russel: …certainly in the short term. Often, a negative safety impact in the short term, even if there’s a better safety performance down the road. It’s a big deal in our business. I’ve done some conversations about the value of looking at people that are transitioning out of the military.
Where are some of the other places that you might look that pipeliners might not historically think about looking to find the right kind of mindset, skills, and passions for our business?
Mary Ann: You need to look at some of these college internship programs. People need to be open to internships, because, first of all, it’s safer because it gives you a chance to evaluate the person before you actually hire them on a permanent basis.
We need to work more with the colleges. It benefits the colleges, it benefits the employers. It benefits the candidates. We need to look at people that might not have years and years of experience, but are studying for a particular role, whether it be engineering, or supply chain, or inventory, or PR, communications.
We need to look at people that don’t have the five years’ experience we’re always looking for. Of course, if we have a senior-level position, that’s not going to work. For some positions, that can work.
[crosstalk]
Russel: What that opens up for me when you talk about this is that certainly, colleges and internships out of colleges, and I’m thinking about four-year schools, lots of needs, because we’re an engineering-centric business. There’s also a lot of needs for technicians.
Those people will be coming out of the NCO ranks out of the military. They’ll be coming out of two-year technical colleges, vo-tech colleges. They’ll come out of things like [inaudible 7:54] Institute and other kind of technical training schools. Working out with those schools to get internships for the technician roles and all those could be very, very productive.
I even think that working with your local high schools in the areas where you operate. There’s a lot of areas that we operate as pipeliners where they’re rural, they’re remote. People would like to stay in the area, but difficult to find a good-paying job. There’s opportunities in those domains. Those are some places we haven’t historically looked.
Mary Ann: I think networking, too. I just had a situation the other day where I called one of my clients. He had experience in coating, and I said, “I’m looking for somebody for one of my clients that has coating experience. Do you know of anyone that’s looking right now that you can refer to me that’s really got a good background?”
He said, “I certainly do.” Russel, when you look at people that have been referred to you from other people that you admire, respect, trust, you’re going to get a better caliber, in a lot of cases, of a candidate because he’s coming with a referral base. He’s coming with a review, so to speak.
Russel: He’s coming with a reputation.
Mary Ann: A reputation that’s proven, that somebody knows of him. Sometimes, that’s a different pond we can fish in, is in referrals, networking.
[crosstalk]
Russel: There’s a lot of specialties in pipelining that are not just pipelining specialties. Coating is a good example. Integrity management’s a good example. Cathodic protection is a good example. You find that in other industries.
One of the other places to look is at the engineering firms, the engineering and construction firms. There are people there that have many of the kinds of skills and base capabilities that would be effective in pipelining.
Mary Ann: There’s also these engineering organizations. You can find them on LinkedIn. You can find them…
[crosstalk]
Russel: Like ASME and such.
Mary Ann: You can post a job there. You’re right in the area of people that have the technical skills that you need. We just have to look at some different ways of doing things and be open to change. That’s one thing that we’ve been doing.
People have said to me, “Mary Ann, we’ve been doing it this way for so long. We don’t really want to change.” I know you don’t want to, but we have to. We don’t have a choice.
One of the things we talked about, you and I, when we were in the blue room that’s so important is the military. I love, love, love placing people out of the military because they come with a sense of discipline, a sense of methodology. We can train these people in our particular areas. You got a diamond in the rough here when you look in the military, I think.
Russel: I couldn’t agree with you more. You’re absolutely right. The military, just by its nature, they understand following process and procedure. They understand modifying process and procedure on the fly. They understand safety. They understand chain of command.
They understand working independently. They understand a focus on getting the job done, all these things that are more what people would call soft skills. I don’t know how soft those kind of skills really are. To me, those are the skills that are really important.
[crosstalk]
Russel: That goes to my next question. When you go to these other sources, these other ponds if you will, what are you looking for?
Mary Ann: You have to, obviously, have a clear understanding of what the job requirements are. Then you have to look at transferable skills that align with those. That’s very, very important, to make sure that you’re not looking too far away from the skill set that you really need to get the job done.
The other thing that I look at is what kind of extracurricular activities. For example, I love to place Eagle Scouts because Eagle Scouts work on projects. They work in a team. They have a lot of things they have to do to get that Eagle Scout designation.
If they’re doing that on their own, then they’re going to transfer that attitude, aptitude into a job position. Look at some of the other extracurricular activities these people are doing. Like I said, Eagle Scouts, that’s a real important thing for me.
Russel: Any young person who, at the age of 14 or 15, can get 11- or 12-year-olds to accomplish anything that is an important set of leadership skills right there, just speaking from my own personal experience as an Eagle Scout and a part-time Assistant Scoutmaster. Again, I think that’s right.
Really, what you’re pointing out is that there are certain things that are around leadership, communication, training, all these kinds of things that you learn in the military, you learn in scouting, and you learn in other kinds of jobs, that those skills are universally transferable.
Mary Ann: The other area that I am really pushing these days or suggesting these days is to come off this “Must have a degree.” I just had a situation the other day, a sales position. I had somebody without a degree that had so many clients they’re going to bring to my company and walk in the door to put business on their bottom line, but he didn’t have a degree. Russel, they wouldn’t see him.
I said, “Wait a minute. You’re going to see somebody with a degree. It’s going to take him two years to get what this guy’s going to bring to you, in the door.” “It’s not negotiable, Mary Ann. We have to have a degree.” I’m thinking, “I can see a degree, an engineering degree or a mechanical engineering degree, for engineering jobs, but we’re talking about a sales position.
I understand the technical abilities or refine this and that. At the end of the day, a sales position is about relationships. If you’ve got a person that’s got so many good contacts…I guess what I’m saying is some of these requirements that we’ve used for so many years, are they really that important? Are they really that necessary?
If a person without them is going to help your company grow and make that bottom line expand faster, don’t you…You understand what I’m saying?
Russel: You’re making a really interesting point. I have an engineering degree. I have a master’s in business. I think about that often. Both of those degrees have been important to my career, but there’s nothing about what I do that really is directly…Well, very little about what I do that’s related to either of those degrees. Most of what I do, I have had to learn on the job.
You don’t learn SCADA out of school. You learn SCADA once you have some kind of basic electrical or other kind of training. Then you go to work. You start adding experience and the training that you get. The most valuable training you get is the training you pursue as you’re trying to be a professional in your position.
I know of more than one people that have risen to fairly significant levels in pipeline companies, that do not have degrees. They had pretty hardcore technical training out of the military or someplace else that they applied and then advanced. The issue is not do you have a degree. The issue is can you continue to learn.
Mary Ann: That’s right. That’s exactly right. Russel, look at Michael Dell, Bill Gates, the Facebook guy. None of those guys have degrees. Look what they’ve done. We’re not talking specifically in the energy industry at this five second, right now.
[crosstalk]
Russel: Yeah, but those guys all started college. They all got through a year or two and started doing something. Then the knowledge they needed was not available to them through the university system. They had to go elsewhere to continue to learn what they were interested in.
Being a company that’s primarily oriented around software and technology and so forth, we look for people that can learn. I like people that can learn on their own, get really good and stuck, and then know how to ask the right kind of questions. They can run through that cycle quickly and effectively.
Mary Ann: The other thing too that I think is important to mention here — we’re kind of on this subject — is the GPA. The 3.8, the 3.6, that’s great. If I have somebody with a 3.0 or 2.7 or 2.8 but they worked full-time and they paid for their education, I’m not going to stop presenting them or not present them because my client wants a 3.0 or above.
They’ve got a 2.7, 2.8, but they work full-time. They paid for their education. They demonstrated so much ambition and hard work ethics. I’m going to support a person like that and place them. Do you agree with the GPA requirement, that we have to look outside of that as well?
Russel: I’d frame it a little differently. You have to look at a person’s ability to perform. I think you’re looking for work ethic, sticktoitiveness, the ability to overcome obstacles. Sometimes, a high GPA demonstrates the ability to consume and process information and not the ability to struggle and win.
It depends on the role you’re putting them in. If I’m putting somebody in an operations role, that’s a very different consideration than I’m going to have them go run the lab.
Mary Ann: Yeah, that’s true. That’s a very valid point.
Russel: It goes to the comment earlier about placement. Anyways, I want to transition a little bit. What we said is you got to look someplace new. We’ve given some examples. We’ve talked about character and soft skills and some of the things you’re looking for and a way to maybe try to get outside of the box of degree and GPA and those kind of things, particularly for entry-level positions. What are the things that really matter for the position?
Then the other thing I want to talk you about is, the other thing about this, if we’re in a resource-scarce environment, we can’t afford to make hires that don’t work. How do we make sure that our placement is successful? What are the elements of doing that?
Mary Ann: I believe a lot of that goes into onboarding. The training initially, that you give that person. Obviously, before you hire that person, you want to make sure you check those references.
You ask your person’s previous employer the strengths and weaknesses of this person. Sometimes they won’t tell you, but sometimes they will. You do your homework. You do the investigation before.
Also, the right onboarding. The right training. That’s critical. Just to throw somebody in a job and say, do it, the chances sometimes are not as high as for success as someone that’s been onboarded correctly, trained correctly, written with the manager to see what is important to the manager.
They can have all those qualifications and look great on their resume, but at the end of the day, you’re dealing with a human being. You’ve got to take the time to work with that person to try to ensure the success of that person in your company. I think the way you train and onboard is critical.
Russel: You talked a little bit about something that…Well I’m [laughs] struggling to frame this question, so I’m going to make a statement, then I’ll try and turn it into a question. In my experience, onboarding starts in the hiring process.
Part of what you’re doing is you’re trying to discover, in the hiring process, what are the strengths, weaknesses, and limitations of the person you’re hiring. Then your onboarding needs to address their strengths, weaknesses, and limitations. That means that every onboarding is unique.
Particularly for entry-level positions, there can be a certain amount of onboarding that is required for everybody. That is, basic education and training. But onboarding is an individual process.
It’s incumbent upon the hiring manager to understand, what do I need to do to bring this person on and have them stay, have them be productive, have them be successful, and have them be accretive to the organization, adding to the value?
Mary Ann: I had an employer the other day interview somebody and asked the question, had two people interview. The person with the heaviest experience, he asked, “What have you done in your career most proud that you’ve accomplished?” The person said, “I’ve, gotten raised, I’ve been promoted three times in two years. I had a 3.8 GPA. I graduated from Ivy League school.”
The other person that had maybe a year experience, they asked that question. He said, “During Covid, there was a little boy down the street, he was trying to get on the baseball team. He tried and never could get on, but here I was remote. At four o’clock, I’d go down there and help him. You know what, he got on the team and I was so proud. He was just so excited.”
My employer said, “You know, Mary, I’m going to hire that kid because that kid went to help somebody else. He’s going to come in here to my office, to my company, and be a team player.” Now, depends on the position. If this is a technical position or a lab position, that answer maybe wouldn’t have been as important. This was more of a sales position, a project management thing.
Russel: You can train in a whole lot of technical skills fairly quickly if somebody’s interested and has some passion and cares, right?
Mary Ann: Mm-hmm.
Russel: That’s for sure. What I find with the onboarding is…I’ll just tell you what we do and I’ll ask for your opinion on that because I think that might be an interesting discussion for the listeners.
Anybody that we hire, they come in with a set of 90 and 180 day objectives. We’re defining that at the end of 90 days, you should have accomplished these things. At the end of 180 days, you should accomplish these things.
We’re a small company. We’re growing. Often, we’re bringing people in who have skills and capabilities that we’re not familiar with. They’re additive to the company.
We tell these people that these 90-day and 80-day objectives, it’s not so much about whether you get them done or not, but how we work together to improve the performance of the company by focusing on these objectives. That blows some people’s heads up.
One of the most successful hires I ever did, we had two sets of…We had a 90-day objective and 180. We got the 90 done. We abandoned the 180 and rewrote the plan because we were having so much success. We changed the plan and went a different direction. In a small company, that’s really critical. You’ve got to be flexible. I’m just curious, what do you think about that as a process for onboarding?
Mary Ann: That’s amazing process. That’s a process that more people should utilize. 90 days, you know a lot about what you got, who you just hired. They’re showing you everything they got. The first 90 days, if they come in and they come in like a house afire and they’re working hard, chances are you got a pretty good person who’s going to continue on that way.
If, in the first 90 days, you don’t see a whole lot of drive, a whole lot of good attitude and resourcefulness and work ethic, then, more than likely…That’s the best they’re doing, the first 90 days. The remainder isn’t going to be that great. That’s crucial.
Giving them objectives and “In these 90 days, this is what I expect you to accomplish,” if more companies did that, they’d have much better longevity in their hires. You’d see, within those 90 days, what you got.
Russel: We’re not perfect. Hiring is more like baseball than other things. If you’re batting .300, you’re doing pretty good. We do a lot better than .300, but I do think it helps. I want to transition and talk to you about something I know that’s your passion. That’s this whole idea of becoming your best self.
Again, it’s not just about placement. It’s not just about onboarding. It’s about retention. Can you talk to us a little bit about your philosophy around what management should be doing with employees to help them become their best selves and why that’s so important?
Mary Ann: Initially, you need to find out what’s important to that person, in the interview. What really jazzes you? What are you most proud of? What is your ultimate goal coming here? Starting off asking them what’s important to them and then making sure you’re aligning them with a position that will allow them to actualize those actual feelings and needs…
The longevity aspect, it’s going to happen more regularly if there’s a meeting there, an alignment of what’s important to that person and what your job is going to offer them.
If you’ve got a person come in and say, “I’ve got to leave every day at four o’clock. I’ve got things to handle. I’ve got to leave here,” but you’ve got some real important variables you’re trying to accomplish in your company, that’s probably not going to work.
Becoming your best self is, in my opinion, being in alignment with a job that helps you facilitate those. The candidates that I place, they’re in alignment with a company that allows them to actualize those needs they have. The probability of them staying in the company and being successful is a lot higher.
Becoming your best self, I’ve just written a book about it. It’s crucial. Anyone that comes to you, that wants to be the best they can be, you got a star employee here. They’re not going to just be mediocre. They want to be good. They want to be better.
That gets me excited when I ask that question in an interview. If they say, “Look, I’m just looking for a paycheck. I just want to go in every day, do what I got to do, and come home,” I’m a little hesitant. I mean, I’ll place them too, in a certain kind of job.
Asking the right questions in that interview to understand what’s important to them, not only what’s important to you in hiring but what’s important to them, and then being in alignment, that’s very important to helping the applicant become their best self and the company to hire the best candidate they can to ensure longevity.
Russel: One thing you didn’t talk about that I think’s an element of this is they also need to fit the culture.
Mary Ann: Absolutely.
Russel: In my experience, I’ve had a lot of different teams over the years, but I think of two in particular. The team I have right now, which I love, they are high-performing and I enjoy hanging out with them. I look forward to when we’re going to have a meeting and go afterwards and sit down and have a cocktail and visit.
I actually like hanging with these guys. I had another team that was also high-performance, but I didn’t enjoy. [laughs] Let me tell you, that doesn’t work. That’s not sustainable. That whole idea about fitting the culture and being able to enjoy the people that you’re hanging with is really important.
Mary Ann: I think so.
Russel: I worked with one team and nearly everybody on that team was a motorhead. They all loved cars. They were either racing or they were rebuilding cars in their garage. When they weren’t working, that’s what they would talk about, what they had going on with their cars.
I think that whole, not only do they need to have passion for the job and care, they also need to fit the culture. When somebody doesn’t fit the culture, if they’re high-performing, but they don’t fit the culture, can be difficult.
It’s important to have that conversation with that person and say, “Look, you’re a key contributor. You’re very valuable, but this really isn’t the place for you. For you to really flourish, there might be some place that’s a better fit, not that I want to lose you.” That’s a very difficult conversation to have, but it can be really important.
Mary Ann: It’s a crucial compensation. I think sometimes, fitting the culture can be even more important than compensation. If somebody fits with that culture and they’re really happy there, sometimes more important than how much money they’re going to make.
I’m not saying they’re going to take a whole lot less than you’re going to offer, but culture fit is crucial. I’m so glad you brought it up, because it does ensure more longevity than if we don’t have the right culture fit. That’s, again, asking questions in the interview to give you information about if they will fit the culture that you have.
Russel: We’re coming to the end of our time. What I often like to do is try to capture my takeaways. I’m going to try to do a quick, one-minute, here’s the summary, here’s what you need to take away from this episode. I want to do this, and then I’m going to ask you to give me a letter grade, OK?
[laughter]
Russel: The first thing is start looking at some new places, look at university internship programs, look at technical colleges, maybe even high schools. People that are coming out of other industries but have the skills you need through trade associations, professional organizations.
Basically, just throw a bigger net. In doing that, what you’re looking for is the right character, the right so-called soft skills, and the cultural fit. Then, if you find that person, plan their onboarding so that they get the technical skills they need, the company-specific skills they need. Once you have them onboarded, continue to help them find their passion and be their best self.
Mary Ann: You said it beautifully, Russel. You nailed it.
Russel: We didn’t need to talk for 30 minutes. I could have just said that and we wouldn’t need to spend all this time.
Mary Ann: We gave some good examples, though.
Russel: Anyways, it’s a great conversation. For a lot of us that are staffing, particularly hiring managers, there’s a lot of roles where we don’t hire very often. We may go two, or three, or four years and not hire a soul. Having this out there and having this as a refresher can be helpful.
Mary Ann: I’m going to leave it with this, the only constant in life is change, so be open to change. Be willing to look in different places for good people that are going to make a contribution to your company. If we’re open to doing that in the energy sector, we’ll have a lot more results, a lot happier employees, and we don’t have to hire as often because people are going to stay.
[background music]
Russel: That’s right. I couldn’t agree more. Look, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me, Mary Ann. This has been awesome. I’m going to file this away someplace handy so I can refer back to it.
For the listeners, the other thing we’ll do is in the show notes, we’ll link up the information about Mary Ann’s books. If you’re interested in learning more about her philosophy or reaching out to her and talk to her about your hiring challenges or opportunities, then we’ll make all that available to you. Thanks, Mary Ann.
Mary Ann: Thank you so much, Russel. It’s been my pleasure. I appreciate the opportunity to be with you all on this podcast. Thank you.
Russel: I hope you enjoyed this month’s episode of the Pipeline Technology Podcast and our conversation with Mary Ann. If you’d like to support the podcast, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or wherever you happen to listen. You can find instructions at pipelinepodcastnetwork.com.
If there’s a Pipeline & Gas Journal article where you’d like to hear from the author, please let me know on the Contact Us page at pipelinepodcastnetwork.com, or reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. I’ll talk to you next month.