In this episode of the Pipeliners Podcast, host Russel Treat interviews Shelby Mounts, Executive Director at NextOp.

They discuss Shelby’s diverse military and industry background, as well as the mission and operations of NextOp, which focuses on helping enlisted veterans transition to civilian careers.

The conversation covers the specific needs of veterans, the organization’s success in job placements, and how industry partners can get involved in supporting veteran employment.

Hiring American Heroes, Next Op Show Notes, Links, and Insider Terms

• Shelby Mounts is the Executive Director of NextOp. Connect with Shelby on LinkedIn
  • NextOp is a non-profit organization engineered to meet the unprecedented employment challenges and opportunities facing military members and veterans today. Learn more about NextOp here.
• Naval Academy: As the undergraduate college of our country’s naval service, the Naval Academy prepares young men and women to become professional officers of competence, character, and compassion in the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps. Naval Academy students are midshipmen on active duty in the U.S. Navy. They attend the academy for four years, graduating with bachelor of science degrees and commissions as ensigns in the Navy or second lieutenants in the Marine Corps. Naval Academy graduates serve at least five years in the Navy or Marine Corps.
• Middle enlisted (E-3 to E-7): Ranks in the military that encompass non-commissioned officers and petty officers.
• Combined Arms: An umbrella organization in Houston that affiliates with many veteran service organizations to provide comprehensive services to veterans.
• Veteran service organizations (VSOs): Organizations dedicated to supporting veterans through various services.
• Salesforce: A customer relationship management (CRM) system used by NextOp to manage candidate information and interactions.
• GI Bill: An education benefit program for individuals who have served in the military, providing financial assistance for education and training.
• ACP (American Corporate Partners): A nonprofit organization focused on helping veterans transition to civilian careers through mentorship.
• Veterati: A digital platform that connects veterans with mentors for career guidance.
• IRAC: An organization involved in training programs, mentioned in the context of integrating veteran training programs.
• Safety culture: The attitude, beliefs, perceptions, and values that employees share about safety in the workplace.

Hiring American Heroes, Next Op Full Episode Transcript

Russel Treat: Welcome to the “Pipeliners Podcast,” episode 341, sponsored by the American Petroleum Institute, driving safety, environmental protection, and sustainability across the natural gas and oil industry through world class standards and safety programs.

Since its formation as a standards setting organization in 1919, API has developed more than 800 standards to enhance industry operations worldwide. Find out more about API at API.org.

Announcer: The Pipeliners Podcast, where professionals, bubba geeks, and industry insiders share their knowledge and experience about technology, projects, and pipeline operations. Now your host, Russel Treat.

Russel: Thanks for listening to the Pipeliners Podcast. I appreciate you taking the time. To show that appreciation, we are giving away a customized YETI tumbler to one listener every episode. This week, our winner is Shannon Maloney with Washington Gas. Congratulations, Shannon. Your YETI is on its way. To learn how you can win this prize, stick around till the end of the episode.

This week, we speak to Shelby Mounts with NextOp Veterans about hiring American heroes, helping the enlisted transitioning from service to industry. Shelby, welcome to the Pipeliners Podcast.

Shelby Mounts: Thanks so much for having me on today. I appreciate the opportunity.

Russel: Great to have you. Been interested in having this conversation for a while. Maybe I could just ask you to tell us a little bit about your background and what you do at NextOp.

Shelby: Absolutely. I was a career Navy guy. Drove ships as an engineer, flew helicopters, did a couple of staff assignments, including one at Special Ops Command, where I went to Afghanistan with Special Forces, a couple tours in the Pentagon, and a real unique one as a Secretary of Defense fellow assigned to Shell Oil for a year.

After the Navy, 25 years, I worked in a metals company doing aerospace and maritime business development for a couple years. Then I was the chief commercial officer for a startup out of Colorado for a couple years.

Then I took a little break. I found out about this neat nonprofit based in Houston that does middle enlisted career transitions, called NextOp Veterans. I reached out to their previous executive director, who I had met when I was at Shell. She’s also a Naval Academy grad.

I said, “I want to learn about NextOp.” We had a real nice conversation in the fall of 2022. She told me about all the great things that they do, but that she was looking to bring someone in that could help take this program that they had proven out and scale it for impact across the country.

I threw my name in the hat. Luckily, I got that job, and I started as executive director at the end of October 2022.

Russel: That is awesome. That’s a pretty diverse background, from the academy and then a pretty diverse military experience. Your assignments have a lot of variability in them. That’s not always the case.

Shelby: I don’t think I ever did much of anything more than maybe two or three years at a time, it seemed like, but somehow managed to fill up a whole career. Now I’ve been out of the Navy for about seven and a half years and on my third job.

I think this one probably has the most gratifying mission. I enjoy the challenges, on a daily basis, of leading and growing, not only the team, but the impact. I’m pretty happy.

Russel: Tell us about NextOp. What is it? Where does it come from? What’s its history?

Shelby: It started back in 2014, when we had a lot of veterans coming home from the wars. In particular, Houston, which has a large veteran population, was experiencing a lot of veteran homelessness.

A couple of veterans and oil and gas executives got together and said, “What can we do to help this veteran population?” Oh, by the way, the oil and gas industry has a pretty tall demand signal for workers at this time. This was before the crash, back in the fall of ’14.

They looked at the challenge that veterans face when they come out of service and realized that, from their perspective, the best medicine that they could come up with was a good quality job when you leave the service.

In particular, enlisted folks, which are about 80 plus percent of the transitioners, have the most challenge accessing resources, understanding how their skills translate, figuring out where opportunities are, networking to those opportunities, getting through the hiring barriers, and getting a good career.

Even when they do find something, a lot of times, it’s almost out of desperation. They would take jobs that underutilize their skills. It’s called underemployed. They said, “That’s what we’re going to focus on. We’re going to focus on middle enlisted, E 3 to E 7, and we’re going to work on getting them into oil and gas jobs.”

A couple volunteers formed the organization in the fall of ’14, went operational in 2015, and quickly branched out of oil and gas into construction, logistics, and a few other mom and pop industries.

Then in 2017, a guy named Ben Armstrong, who’s on my leadership team now–he’s my partnership and outreach lead–who was a Marine Corps Harrier avionics tech, had stood up the University of Texas veterans program, moved back home to New Orleans, and was finally convinced to join the team and be the Louisiana expansion manager.

That kicked off in late ’17. Since that expansion, we’ve placed over 1,000 people in Louisiana now. Between the Houston to New Orleans corridor, mainly in that area is the density of the historical employers for our organization. We’ve placed close to 4,100 now, all time, in the 10 years. That’s how we got started, that’s how we started to expand, and that led us into COVID.

Russel: This is a passion of mine. I’ve been looking for an organization that we could partner with that supported veterans. One of the things I found as I was on that journey is there’s a lot of organizations out there with great names that aren’t necessarily doing great work for veterans.

The other thing I found, particularly when you start talking about employment, those middle NCO ranks, particularly the guys that are coming out of the combat arms skill sets, machine gunners, TOW missile operators and that sort of thing, Hummer drivers and such, those are the guys, I think, that it’s most challenging to get industry to understand the skills they bring to the table.

That focus, to my mind, is really interesting. It’s one of the things that attracted me to what NextOp Veterans does, because you’re targeting a group with very high need.

Shelby: There’s no doubt about it. Transition is hard to start. By the way, since then, we have broadened our focus slightly from middle enlisted to all post 9/11 enlisted now. In reality, the mission is the same, the program is the same, the messaging is just a little bit cleaner, and there’s a few more senior enlisted that come through our program now.

That said, I have found, because I had no background in the veterans service organizations or nonprofit world, but as I’ve learned it over the last year and a half, there really aren’t any other organizations as focused on the enlisted community as we are around career transitions.

There’s a lot of veteran service organizations out there. I won’t be a judge as to whether they are or are not impactful or what they’re actually doing, but there’s a lot of need.

We nest under, historically, an organization called Combined Arms in Houston. It is an umbrella organization that affiliates with many VSOs to provide that full spectrum of services, from A to Z.

When you sign on with them, you agree that you will adhere to the no wrong door policy. If someone comes to Combined Arms and needs help with finding a job, they get referred to us. If that person comes to us and we find out they’re in financial insecurity, or they need mental health counseling, or some other form of help, there is another partner within that umbrella to refer them to.

We can be the intermediary to help coach, mentor, and guide them towards a job, and to put on events and attract employers to hire them, but we can also provide the access to those other services.

As we get outside of Texas, that becomes less well organized. There are spots around the country that have certain elements of that, but very few places that have all of that suitcased in one place.

I often find myself referring veterans who live in different parts of the country back to Combined Arms to get them help because I know that it can be taken care of there. That’s just one way we solve a number of potential challenges.

Russel: Your mission is enlisted transition from military service to industry employment. How do you go about effecting that mission?

Shelby: Actually, the transitioners today represent between 40 and 50 percent of our candidates. The other half are veterans who have already gotten out. They could be potentially using their GI Bill in college and realize college isn’t right for them, and now they need a job, or they complete college.

They were unable, through the school and through their network, to still find a job, and they need that help now. Maybe they were underemployed and heard about us, and they’re looking for a change. Maybe they’ve outgrown the role they’re in, they want to go back to school in advance, et cetera.

There’s a million different reasons why someone would come to us for this kind of help. The way the process works is however they hear about us, which is increasingly, word of mouth, once a service member finds out their buddy got a good deal, they want to follow that.

Russel: That is a very tight loop right there.

Shelby: That’s right. We definitely reinforce that. Our employment coordinators are where the rubber meets the road. Every one of them is a veteran. Every one of them has a load of cases or candidates that they coach and mentor on a daily basis.

They are responsible to recruit candidates by developing relationships at bases and going to job fairs, transition courses, and things like that to get the word out about NextOp, the services that we provide for free for the candidates.

Help to not just raise that awareness, but get them registered in our system, and then work with them to get them figure it out about their why, their what, and their where. Where do they want to live, what do they want to do, and why? What is it about this next phase in their life that is going to make them feel fulfilled and happy?

Often, it starts with Maslow’s pyramid. They need to care for themselves, their family, they need an income, they need to put a roof over their heads, they need medical care, et cetera. Once those needs are realized, then they can start thinking about something else.

We try to help them think beyond the immediacy, and recognize that if you go through our process, we will help you find a job. Then that job, ideally, is a good paying career for you, and all those other things will be solved. That’s the part about having the best medicine to prevent other bad things from happening in life.

We work with them once they get registered. Their case is created in Salesforce, that’s our CRM. An employment coordinator is assigned to that individual who reaches out to do an onboarding call. Validate that they’re a post 9/11 enlisted transitioner or veteran, and they don’t have any pending legal issues. If they can clear those hurdles, then we work with them.

There’s homework. We don’t do all the work for them. We try to help coach them through that understanding of the why, what, and where. We give them the tools to be able to create a résumé. We work with them to refine that résumé and tailor it towards a particular employer or field that they’re chasing.

We hold workshops both virtually and in person to get them access to partners who come in and teach financial literacy. We’ll teach them how to create a LinkedIn account, how to network, how to dress for success, headshots, interview skills, refer them to Veterati or ACP for career coaching.

All these things are happening while they’re on this journey towards employment readiness. Then when they’re ready and that green light comes on, the doors open, and they have to jump out with a parachute, our goal as an organization is to make sure that they have employment within 40 days on average. Last year, we did it in 37. That was an all time record.

We also try to increase average starting salaries for our candidates by more than inflation every year so that they’re not being eroded as they come out in the industry. We did that successfully last year with an average of $66,000 a year starting. This year, we’re running over $70,000 a year starting.

Then of course, we try to increase our numbers every year. The year I joined, we had 408. Our all time record prior to COVID was 609. Our stretch goal last year was 600, we hit 669. This year, our goal is 800.

Now, we’re starting to put in some other pieces of the puzzle. The rest of that story, as you alluded to, is you got to meet employers. You got to get the employers bought into the fact that we can bring them the talent that they want. That they can understand the best way to attract, retain, and develop that talent.

Participate in our activities by giving us job descriptions, agreeing to participate in our virtual and in person events, and then potentially, even having their own events, where we could take candidates to them, and things like that.

As we put more effort into developing very specific pipelines, employers, and training pathways, even, then we’re finding that that direct placement model is the big winner.

This cohort, when they transition out, on average, makes somewhere in the mid 40s average starting salary. With us, as I said, mid 60s, but that’s across that entire group. When we studied our direct placement average starting salaries, we found it was closer to $85,000.

Russel: Interesting.

Shelby: There’s something in the magic of having a direct relationship with an employer and getting their commitment around this talent that drives increased salaries as well as increased retention and outcomes. We’re doubling down on that side of the equation.

Russel: It’s very interesting when I listen to you talk about this, Shelby. My experience coming out of the military, I knew pretty early on that I was not going to be a career guy. I came out as a captain, regular officer after about four and a half years of service.

I don’t remember, but I had several recruiting companies find me. They were all direct placement, paid for placement kind of folks, but they focused on junior military officers, bringing them into frontline management positions.

Very, very similar to the model. I had lots of homework.

Multiple sessions of writing and rewriting my résumé, multiple sessions doing practice interviews, multiple books to read that were all the best sellers of business books for the day. Molloy’s “Dress for Success,” “Swim with the Sharks,” and all that kind of stuff.

When I came out of the military, within six weeks after my separation date, I had 15 interviews and a half a dozen offers. I credit that process that I was brought through. It’s one of the things I think is so interesting about NextOp.

If I had done that without the coaching, I would not have been anywhere close to the success. Not only were they coaching me about how to get the job, but they’re also coaching me about what to do once you get the job because there’s traps you can fall into.

Shelby: Absolutely. We’re talking about a much larger demographic audience than the very small group who are transitioning out every year.

There typically has not been a for profit model that serves this demographic. I don’t know if it’s the way the business models are structured and how they create fees, or that it’s just such a challenge because they come from so many different points, so many different backgrounds, and so many bases.

Russel: What I make up is the amount of translation required is a lot higher. By that, I mean the translation from the job they were doing in the military to the job they’re doing with industry.

Now, there’s exceptions to that in things like avionics, communications, and all of that type of thing. Even there, it’s different doing that job in the military versus doing that job in industry. The structures, the reporting, the evaluation, the training, all of that’s very different.

Shelby: Certifications ends up being a sticking point a lot of times, whether it’s for offshore work, healthcare work, cybersecurity work.

Russel: Or even the trades. Electrical work, heating and air conditioning, those kinds of things, plumbing. They require certain certifications to get a job in a particular city or state.

Shelby: That’s absolutely true. One of the things that I’ve recognized, there’s a lot of power for us as an integrator to create pipelines.

I think my time at Shell helped me understand that it doesn’t matter if you can extract the oil offshore. If you can’t get it through a pipeline to the refinery, it’s no good. If you can’t refine product through a pipeline to a gas station distribution point and then into the tank of the car to ring a final sale, it’s no good.

I look at this ecosystem, and there are some wonderful examples of veteran centric training programs to allow people to go get the entry skill sets, upskills, certifications. There’s different ways to fund it. There’s different employers that are invested in those.

Being able to discover those with the mindset of, “Our mission is to create the best opportunity for these candidates,” it allows us the freedom to go and explore and learn from across the country. Through that, we’re finding success at beginning to integrate these silos of excellence as the pipeline integrator to create that flow of this talent into those jobs.

Russel: There’s a lot bound up in that. There’s finding the talent, there’s coaching the talent, there’s figuring out what is the destination for that talent, and then there’s having a destination looking for that talent.

Then if you’re really doing it right, you’re also thinking about another half dozen steps. How do you make sure that talent, 5 or 10 years, is in a leadership role that is really driving value to their company and their industry?

Shelby: You just hit on one of our strategic pillars that I brought in in early 2023, which was a stronger focus on our alumni. Historically, we have a survey for them on exit and then at various touch points later on. As you can imagine, someone who’s busy in a new career, responding to a survey a year after you left an organization may not be top of your priority list.

We wanted to figure out–and we’re still early innings in this journey, I think–how can we convey to our alumni that we’re here for you throughout your journey, and that your needs may change down the road.

That we want you to stay engaged because you may become not just an advocate, but an actual hiring manager, you may become a leader of an organization. We want you to reach back and then pull more candidates into your organization to help make it stronger.

We’ve instituted some things like quarterly alumni socials. We aligned them to the night before our board meetings so that our board and our leadership team could constantly participate. We bring employers, alumni, and candidates into those, and they’ve really started to touch off some true community.

Russel: That’s awesome. What you guys are doing is great. I want to pivot the conversation, if I might. This podcast goes out to pipeliners. It’s going out to people that work in the pipelining business, engineers, technicians, regulatory people, managers, operations guys, that whole domain of pipelines.

What would you want that industry to know about NextOp and what the opportunity is for the industry? One of the big conversations we’re having in the industry is there’s a need for talent. The energy business is not as attractive of a place to go work as it was at one time, just given the current national discourse, if you will.

Shelby: I would start with probably two points. The first one would be there is interest in energy, but the challenge, I think, of traditional energy and the pipeline community is that the shiny object is the new stuff, so solar, wind, other renewables.

There’s an interest in energy, potentially, from the candidates. There’s a challenge getting them into any of that because in most cases, training curriculums, requirements for skill sets, and certifications are very early on in being developed.

There’s a disconnect there, where people could potentially be interested in going into this new generation of energy jobs, but don’t know how to get there. We’re in the middle of working with IRAC and Louisiana, GNO Inc., et cetera, to try to figure out what that looks like so that we can plug in a supply of the future.

Then the second point would be, to answer your question more directly, one of our long time partners is Chevron. Chevron has hired about 100 of our candidates all time. The lion’s share of them went to West Texas.

The challenge there was they had a difficult time recruiting and retaining people to go work out in West Texas at their variety of activities out there. Someone “took a chance” on infantry guys, back to your comment about the combat arms.

They said, “Look, we believe that these people possess the soft skills and the ability to operate in this environment. We want that sort of mentality–a hire for fit sort of approach–and we will teach them how to do the particulars.”

It was an unusual risk and reach for them, but what they found was massive success. They had, like I said, the lion’s share, maybe 60, 65 of these people got hired over the course of a relatively short period of time.

They all went out, they all stayed. They all made more money than they thought they ever would. They were very at home because they were challenging on a daily basis. They were operating in small teams. They had a lot of autonomy and a relative amount of authority, and they were able to solve problems.

Russel: That’s one of the things that I think if you’ve been in the military, you know this to be true. If you’ve not been in the military, you probably don’t know this to be true.

There’s a certain level of training that everybody in the military gets that has to do with self reliance, creativity, appropriate use of authority, kind of an independence and accountability, and a sense of personal responsibility. These are all more character traits.

One of the things the military does a great job of is they train in those character traits. I think one of the reasons we have such an issue with veterans is when they build that character and then they come back, they can’t find a place where that character is appreciated, it crushes your spirit.

Shelby: You hit on a couple of really interesting points. Since I’ve come to NextOp, I’ve learned of this term, trained to be trained. I really like it because it’s exactly what you’re talking about. Everyone that goes in the military from day one learns how to be trained very quickly.

Russel: Yeah.

Shelby: Learn quick. Then also learn how to follow process, procedures, and checklists. Do them as they are written or highlight if they’re inappropriate, not working, not safe.

Russel: Yes.

Shelby: Then a safety culture. You can’t accomplish your mission if you don’t take care of your people and your equipment. That safety consciousness definitely rang through when I was at Shell. I know that the industry requires that safety not just to protect their people and their investments, but their license to operate. Military people know how to operate.

Russel: That is ingrained. Military people understand safety and quality, particularly combat arms. You don’t work in combat arms and not understand safety.

It’s an absolute requirement.

Shelby: Yeah, you can wave the gun around for a minute and see how that works.

Russel: That’ll happen about once. There will be an immediate and significant corrective action.

Shelby: Those are some things that someone who is unfamiliar with the military but recognizes the characteristics and qualities of a good worker, not to mention the fact that they’re going to show up on time.

They may stay late if they have to, they’re not going to walk away from accomplishing a job or a mission, tend to be drug free. All of these different things that employers require but may be struggling to find in general, but particularly for some challenging operating environments.

Russel: No, for sure. For the operators out there that would have an interest in working with NextOp and trying to build a pipeline of talent, what would they need to do? What would be their next step?

Shelby: The simplest thing is to go to our website, which is www.NextOpVets.org, so N E X T O P V E T S dot O R G. It’s a very simple website. I think it’s laid out pretty well. It’s, “I’m a veteran looking for a job, I’m looking to hire veterans, or I want to donate to the cost.”

Hit one of those buttons, and the rest of it’s pretty intuitive. It’s a very light lift. All it does is capture the basic contact information, create a record in Salesforce.

Then from there, our program director typically is the person who reaches out to the contact, sets up an introductory call, and learns about the company. We do a little bit of vetting and make sure, are you vet interested or are you vet ready?

If you’re a vet and interested, nothing wrong with that. We offer some coaching, some intervention, best practices, job description reviews, and things like that for companies that have never hired veterans or have difficulty with them, and see if we can help make them a little bit more attractive and friendly to that process of bringing veterans in and retaining them.

If they’re vet ready, they already have a vet resource group, they have a lot of veterans employed in their organization, they know exactly what they want, these are really good fits for veterans, we just want access to them.

We would take their job descriptions, put them in the system. We would pulse our pipeline, which right now, is pushing 400 candidates. We would see if there’s a fit right away. If there is, we work with them to tailor the résumé, get them introduced to the point of contact at the company.

At that point, it’s the company’s interview process. We don’t get involved in that. We try to bring you the best fit, best refined candidate that we can, but we understand both sides have to tango. It’s got to be the right fit for the company and for the individual, so we leave it to that.

If it doesn’t work out, the candidate comes back to us, we keep working with them. We ask for feedback from the company about why it didn’t work out to see if there’s something we can tweak to get them a better candidate. If they hire them, we want that feedback, too, and then we keep on going.

If there’s no one in the pipeline, the next step is we get them involved typically in a virtual event. They’re usually 60 to 90 minutes. We have 30 to 50 candidates at a time. It’s an opportunity for a company to come in and talk about what they do, what their culture is like, what type of roles they’re looking for, and why veterans would be successful there.

Then that starts a conversation potentially between candidates, or at least interest. Candidates may hear about this company, express interest to their employment coordinator, and then start looking for jobs.

The last piece of it, which we haven’t touched on, is our investments within Salesforce on automation. We have done a lot internally to streamline and automate the process to move things from gate to gate to get a candidate ready.

Then we rolled, out in January, a customized what we call Customer Success Portal. Some companies are now beginning to come on this portal, where they have a direct ability to log in. They can see weighted matching of candidates to jobs. They can express interest in that candidate and get connected to them. Then we post our events that are coming up as well.

For example, Bechtel came on as a partner two months ago. They saw a Hiring Our Heroes event in Mississippi on the first day that they were on the portal, clicked it and expressed interest. A week later, their rep was recruiting at the base in Mississippi with our candidate or with our employment coordinator on a Hiring Our Hero event.

That’s another way that they could very quickly operationalize our network of events.

Russel: Awesome. I will say this. I did quite a bit of research, background, and such. I went to some of my contacts. Having gone to A&M, having been in the Corp, I have a lot of friends that were lifetime military service. They’re all retired now. I don’t think there’s anybody left serving, but you guys were very highly recommended.

I’ve had very good experience so far with the conversations that we’ve had with NextOp. I highly recommend that any pipeline organization that’s looking for talent and has the capacity to train the technical part, then this is a great potential fit, great potential source.

As we always do, we’ll put all this on the website. We’ll put together some show notes and link up some resources.

Shelby, I thank you for your time. I appreciate what you’re doing for veterans. I would just say it’s awesome to be supporting an organization that’s taking those who have served and giving them an opportunity for a wonderful life.

Shelby: I sure appreciate that feedback. I didn’t build the organization. I haven’t been with it nearly as long as some of our employment coordinators and guys like Ben in outreach and partnership, but we have a really special culture. It’s easy to align around this really impactful mission. It makes every day getting up a real treat.

Getting feedback like that, I’ll pass it along to the team. It helps put fuel in their tank to keep working those cases, doing these events, and getting people good jobs. That’s what we’re all about. Really appreciate the opportunity to come on and talk about the good work that we’re doing and get the word out some more. We look forward to hearing from people.

Russel: Hopefully, we can work together at some point in the future and put together an event focused on getting veterans interested in the pipelining business.

Shelby: I already planted that seed with Allen Whiteside, our program director in Houston. He’s all about it. After you get your move complete, reach on out, and let’s see what we can do.

Russel: Awesome. Thanks again, Shelby. Great to talk to you.

Shelby: You, too. Thank you.

Russel: Hope you enjoyed this week’s episode of the Pipeliners Podcast and our conversation with Shelby.

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Transcription by CastingWords