This week’s Pipeliners Podcast episode features Weldon Wright of Gas Certification Institute (GCI) and the Oil & Gas Measurement Podcast discussing how tariffs drive measurement and operation practice.

In this episode, you will learn about the types of tariffs and their impacts on all aspects of the oil and gas industry, especially measurement, operations, and accounting. Russel and Weldon cover the importance of understanding tariffs and how/why they’re put together, why your operation needs well-defined SOPs to support measurement, and how it all plays into thoroughly understanding the bigger picture of the oil and gas business.

Tariffs Drive Measurement: Show Notes, Links, and Insider Terms

• Weldon Wright is the General Manager of Gas Certification Institute (GCI). Connect with Weldon on LinkedIn.
  • Gas Certification Institute (GCI) provides crude, NGL, and gas measurement training, measurement standard operating procedures (SOPs), and field operations software tools.
  • Oil and Gas Measurement Podcast hosted by Weldon Wright launched in January 2022 on the Pipeline Podcast Network.
• API (American Petroleum Institute) represents all segments of America’s natural gas and oil industry, which supports more than 11 million U.S. jobs and is backed by a growing grassroots movement of millions of Americans. API has developed more than 700 standards to enhance industry operations. Today, it is the global leader in convening subject matter experts to establish, maintain, and distribute consensus standards for the oil and natural gas industry. [Access episodes with API guests.]
• American Gas Association (AGA) represents companies delivering natural gas safely, reliably, and in an environmentally responsible way to help improve the quality of life for their customers every day. AGA’s mission is to provide clear value to its membership and serve as the indispensable, leading voice and facilitator on its behalf in promoting the safe, reliable, and efficient delivery of natural gas to homes and businesses across the nation.
  • AGA Report No. 3 (AGA 3) has been developed as an application guide for the calculation of natural gas flow through a flange-tapped, concentric orifice meter, using the U.S. customary (USC) inch-pound system of units.
  • AGA Report No. 9 (AGA 9) is a recommended practice for using ultrasonic meters (USMs) in fiscal (custody) measurement applications.
  • AGA Report No. 7 (AGA 7) involves specifications that apply to axial-flow turbine flow meters for measurement of natural gas, typically 2-inch and larger bore diameter, in which the entire gas stream flows through the meter rotor.
• GPA (GPA Midstream) is the primary advocate for a sustainable Midstream Industry focused on enhancing the viability of natural gas, natural gas liquids, and crude oil.
• British Thermal Unit (BTU) is the amount of energy needed to raise 1 pound of water by 1 degree Fahrenheit while at sea level.
• Rick Moncrief is the retired president and COO of Caiman Energy and Blue Racer Midstream. Connect with Rick on LinkedIn.
• Caiman Energy is a midstream energy company focused on the design, construction, operation, and acquisition of midstream assets. 
• Blue Racer Midstream is a joint venture between Caiman Energy and Dominion that is dedicated to providing producers in the Utica and Marcellus shale plays with midstream services and the ability to receive the highest value for their products.
• MCF is the acronym representing one thousand cubic feet, derived from the Roman numeral M for 1,000, combined with cubic feet (CF) for volumetric determination of natural gas. 
  • MSCF (often shortened to MCF) represents the basic unit of measurement for natural gas in commerce in the U.S.  “One Thousand Standard Cubic Feet”, with the word “Standard” indicating that the reported volume of the compressible gas has been mathematically adjusted to a contractual standard pressure and temperature.
• FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission) regulates, monitors, and investigates electricity, natural gas, hydropower, oil matters, natural gas pipelines, LNG terminals, hydroelectric dams, electric transmission, energy markets, and pricing.
• Gas chromatography is used to analyze both finished products and in-process samples. They comprise an injection system to add the sample, a chromatography column to allow the components to separate, and a detector to sense when a component is exiting the system.
• The Permian Basin is an oil-and-gas-producing area located in West Texas and the adjoining area of southeastern New Mexico. 
• Renewable Natural Gas (RNG) is a pipeline-quality gas that is interchangeable with conventional natural gas, derived from sources such as landfills, bio-digesters, and waste treatment plants. 
• Biogas is a renewable fuel produced by the breakdown of organic matter such as food scraps and animal waste. It can be used in a variety of ways including as vehicle fuel and for heating and electricity generation.
• Natural Gas Liquids (NGL) are components of natural gas that are separated from the gas state in the form of liquids. This separation occurs in a field facility or a gas processing plant through absorption, condensation, or other methods.
• Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) are a set of written instructions that describe the step-by-step process that must be taken to properly perform a routine.
  • GCI offers a measurement SOPs program for oil and gas companies. Learn more about how GCI can help companies implement or update their SOPs.
• Sour Gas is natural gas or any other gas containing significant amounts of hydrogen sulfide H2S. Sour gas reserves are historically left undeveloped because of the technical challenges and costs involved in their extraction and processing.

Tariffs Drive Measurement: Full Episode Transcript

Russel Treat:  Welcome to the Pipeliners Podcast, episode 219, sponsored by EnerACT Energy Services, supporting pipeline operators to achieve Natural Compliance through plans, procedures, and tools implemented to automatically create and retain required records as work is performed. Find out more at EnerACTEnergyServices.com.

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Announcer:  The Pipeliners Podcast, where professionals, Bubba geeks, and industry insiders share their knowledge and experience about technology, projects, and pipeline operations. Now your host, Russel Treat.

Russel:  Thanks for listening to the Pipeliners Podcast. I appreciate you taking the time. To show our appreciation, we give away a customized YETI tumbler to one listener every episode. This week, our winner is Bryn Lewis with Magellan Midstream. Congratulations, Brian. Your YETI is on its way.

To learn how you can win this signature prize, stick around till the end of the episode. I encourage you to enter. We give these away and they’re way cool. This week, Weldon Wright is returning, and he’s going to talk to us about how tariffs drive measurement and operation practice. Hey, Weldon, welcome back to the Pipeliners Podcast.

Weldon Wright:  Hey, Russel. Great to be back on again.

Russel:  For those that are constant listeners, I’m sure they’ve heard us talk about the Oil  & Gas Measurement podcast, and you have now got that kicked off and a few episodes are under your belt. How’s that going?

Weldon:  I got four episodes out there, three of them with the guests talking about great industry topics out there, in addition to our first intro. It’s going great, but, man, all that stuff’s a lot of work. [laughs]

Russel:  Yeah. That’s true.

Weldon:  It’s not as simple as you make it sound like on the radio. Not just handing out YETI cups and smiling all the time.

Russel:  Yeah. Are you learning anything by talking to these guys?

Weldon:  Absolutely, Russel. Absolutely.

Russel:  The education is worth the pain. That’s what you’re trying to say?

Weldon:  Yes, sir. It is.

Russel:  Pretty good.

Weldon:  We’ve got some great stuff out there for folks. We’ve got a lot of more great stuff in the pipe for them.

Russel:  I brought you on to talk about how tariffs drive measurement and operations policy and practice. Probably a good place to tee up this conversation is, let’s talk a little bit about how our operations are governed for midstream operators in the U.S. What governs how they operate?

Weldon:  There’s really two different things out there. In the midstream world, we’re almost always governed by contracts, contractual agreements with individual parties. In the U.S., very little of our measurement, custody transfer measurement, is dictated by regulations, whether federal or state.

What we have is the terms that two parties agree to on how they operate their measurement and how they settle at the end of the month, or day, or hour, however, they’re settling.

The key thing there is, it’s an agreement between two parties. Theoretically, those agreements could be almost anything. They could say we’re going to blow up gas in a balloon and you’re going to burn it out of a balloon, and that could theoretically be custody transfer measurement.

In practice, that doesn’t work very well. What we do is there are industry bodies out there, the API, American Petroleum Institute, AGA, GPA. Those bodies are charged with creating what we call “voluntary” industry standards.

These boards devote a lot of effort. There are hundreds of volunteers out there constantly pedaling the wheel to keep those standards updated, and create new ones to stay up with new technologies coming out there.

In practice, what we really do with the way in the midstream world – that we handle the custody transfer measurement operations in the field and in the back office – is the parties contractually agree upon the standards that will be used for that custody transfer.

If it’s oil, or whether it’s gas, they reference the appropriate standards in API, AGA, they reference the appropriate GPA standards for how their analysis will be done, and BTUs will be calculated. Those contracts on the midstream side define the measurement terms, the base conditions, and basically how we do our entire operations.

Russel:  I did an entire episode with Rick Moncrief. Rick was the chief operating officer and president of Caiman Midstream, and he did an episode with me shortly after he retired. He talked about their approach to the midstream business being payment in kind versus payment as a fee.

We talked a lot about how that impacted measurement and how that impacted operations. I want to, if I could, summarize that just a little bit, because I think it’s really material to this conversation.

Fee-based midstream processing is “You’re going to give me your gas. You’re going to pay me a fee per MCF. On the backside, I’m going to give you gas back.” In a situation like that, I don’t have any particular incentive to optimize my efficiencies or any of that kind of stuff because I’m just getting paid a fee for moving your gas, and there’s some performance standard that’s all defined in the contract.

What Rick talked about is what they did in payment in kind was that you got your prorated share of the liquids on the backside of our fractionator, which meant I had to allocate from the backside of the fractionator all the way back to the wellhead, and that impacts everything about how you operate and how you measure and how you write your contracts.

If I do that kind of measurement, I’ve got to have good gas analysis. I’ve got to have good practice about gas analysis at the wellhead and key collection points and through to the fractionator and so forth. That whole thing about the contract and how it drives the tariffs, it’s really material.

I don’t know that most of us, as pipeliners, really understand that part of the game. Anyways, I provide that as context. I’m sure you have something you want to say about that little bit of blather I put out there.

Weldon:  I had the opportunity to work with the company, back 20 years ago now, that was, I believe, the initial producer-owned or producer participated in processing plant out in the Permian.

There were literally contracts still in effect in 2000, 2010. There were still contracts in effect that had been written when that plant was put in service under contract. It literally said, “We gather your gas at the wellhead, and we’ll give you back half of that gas at the back end of the plant.”

There was no mention of the liquids. So any liquid processing was just extra dollars in the pocket. Of course, for the producers in those days, that was free money for them, because they’ve been flaring that gas up to that right. It was all coincidental oil production.

What we see now is 70 plus years of evolution in those contracts from the fee-based contract, which is still heavily used today in new contracts, except those fee-based contracts are going to be, let’s just call it, much tighter than they used to be. They’re going to define terms.

The same thing on the contracts, that instead of fee-based, they are going to allocate losses. All of those contracts have been tightened down to where if there is an allocation process, the midstream company is going to have typically some maximum limits or losses they can take.

If their losses are too high, they bear the burden. The customer did lose money, right? There’s a wide range of stuff out there, which is very, very different than the transportation pipeline world we have here in the U.S.

Russel:  The transportation pipeline is all by regulation fee for service at least on the gas side. Let’s unpack a little bit. What is a tariff? Everybody’s probably heard that word, but if you don’t work in that domain, you probably don’t get exposed to what’s the tariff.

Weldon:  In a simplistic world, as we just talked about in the midstream world, ever deal to transact with gas whether gathering, buying, treating for a fee. All of those are individual contracts between the two parties. In the tariff world, we take those contractual terms. If I’m the transportation pipeline, we have a set of contractual terms that have to be blessed by .gov. Those contractual terms and the rates for the services are published. They’re published on the company’s website. They’re published in various other forums.

You can tell, if I want to move my gas on Pipeline A, I can pull out the tariffs and say, “Here’s the quality I’ve got to meet. Here’s the delivery conditions I have to meet. Here’s what it’s going to cost me from one point to another point.” The tariffs are defining that instead of requiring a contract for each individual transaction.

They’re also part of that deregulation. Even though that sounds a little funny to say deregulation than tariffs and the government approves tariffs, all in one or two sentences, but that’s really what’s going on.

Russel:  For the regulated carriers or for the regulated service providers, those carriers and their tariffs are overseen by FERC versus those that aren’t regulated by FERC are free to set their tariffs however and wherever they feel is appropriate and how they compete in the market.

Weldon:  Just to clarify, though, the word tariff gets thrown around a lot when we’re talking about transportation pipelines, but you need to be aware of the context we’re using it in. Many folks talk about tariffs as just the price structure for transporting that gas, but the approved tariff will also include quality specifications and other information like that.

Russel:  Right. Exactly right. It gets to the whole thing about, “Well, that’s pipeline quality gas,” and what that means because the tariff is going to vary specifically to find what is pipeline quality.

Weldon:  That quality may vary a little bit from pipeline to pipeline in different areas. Right?

Russel:  Right.

Weldon:  Every tariff doesn’t specify exactly the same gas quality, even with the same pipeline company. If they’re operating in an area, where they know there’s a larger amount of CO2 and methane, they may have a little looser specs on that than in other parts of the world, where we just don’t see much of either of those two.

Russel:  Yeah, interesting. We’ve already alluded to this, but the next question I had that I want to ask you is, how do these tariffs ultimately impact your measurement and operations?

Weldon:  As far as how they impact their measurement or operations in general, as we said, they’re taking the place of all of the contractual work that would have been done with two parties because we actually see some of the tariffs becoming less clearly defined in some contracts. Overall, the tariffs are going to specify the measurement conditions.

At times, the tariffs may even specify the specific type of equipment being used. For instance, you may have a tariff that says we’re going to measure gas according to best industry practices, which is becoming less common this day than it used to be. More likely, you’re going to have a tariff that calls out that we measure according to AGA 3, AGA 9, AGA 7.

You may very well have tariffs that also spell out the type of equipment. For instance, your tariffs may talk about the delivery rates or the receipt rates at a site. By that definition, they may call out the type of equipment used.

We also see, in the contractual world, it’s a negotiation every time you make a connection to somebody, like who will be custody transfer. There are some assumptions of what’s going to happen, but it’s still open for negotiation.

In the tariff world, those are going to be defined. It’s going to be defined from the beginning, who installs equipment, who pays for the equipment, the type of equipment to be installed, where that custody transfer point is.

That goes downstream into your standard operating procedures, or what should be your standard operating procedures, or how your measurement operates, and in a great extent, your pipeline operations also because they’re going to define interoperability.

They’re going to define minimum & maximum pressures on the pipeline. I’m very familiar with a particular tariff that specified a maximum delivery pressure required to get into the pipeline or a minimum, if you look at it from the other direction, and that particular tariff ended up being the focus of several lawsuits, because they ended up shutting out some legacy facilities operating into that plant.

Russel:  If you think about big pipe transmission, where they’re doing based on the tariff, those companies because they’re just fee for service on transmission, they have to very carefully contain their losses. They have to be very accurate with their measurements in order to contain their losses. They’re hyper interested in being very standard and putting the measurement in a box around what they’re doing.

Their measurement tends to be more robust. Meaning, they might have online chromatographs and things like that, but their practice tends to be highly consistent across the pipe. That’s to be able to get the cost down and the losses down in order to be able to improve their profitability.

Weldon:  The robustness and the consistency is part of that entire formula. Out in the midstream gathering world, there are companies out there that would be really happy if they saw numbers under one percent, which is a little terrifying to us if you’re measurement guys.

On the midstream side, that equals your company going broke over time if you keep doing it for too long. Very tight measurement, very consistent and that also means paying a lot closer attention to every molecule of gas that comes into your pipeline, which is why we see online analyzers and online chromatographs, as opposed to, “Hey, we took a sample last quarter. We’ll keep using it for the next month.”

Russel:  Particularly, when you’re paying in kind and you have to reconcile the wellhead gas back to the outlet of the fractionator, that requires good measurement all the way from the wellhead through the system.

The other thing that’s reality, in transmission systems, you typically have a relatively consistent gas quality. But, when you start talking about gathering, that gas quality is going to be dependent on what’s coming out of the wellhead the closer you get to the wellhead.

People that have experience, particularly old school experience, around measuring gas off the wellhead, will talk about, “Well, that’s just blood, guts, and feathers.” Meaning, I got a number, but it’s a number representing everything that was contained with no real indication of how much blood, or how much guts, or how many feathers.

Truly and certainly in the gas world, and certainly in these big shale plays, we’re moving away from that. One of the reasons is the volumes off the wellhead are so dadgum big. It justifies getting accurate, and the gas is very rich, which justifies spending the money on getting your analysis more dialed in.

Weldon:  You’ve got individual wells now that produce more than some of the early plants did out in the Permian Basin, 50, 60, 70 years ago. 

Russel:  I hadn’t thought about that but that’s true.

Weldon:  It is. The other thing that happens, too, Russel, is that while we like to think of our “pipeline quality gas,” in those air quotes again, as being very consistent and very steady, it’s not as steady as a lot of people like to believe.

What’s delivered out the other end, especially to power plants and into city gates, needs to be very steady. Take a half a dozen plants in the Permian Basin that have gas coincidental to oil production, and if the liquids prices, ethane, propane, every other stuff starts to swing up in value, those guys squeeze a lot harder.

If the price of ethane gets to where it’s not profitable to sell ethane, then those midstream operations, those processing plants, will try to leave all the BTUs they can in the gas they deliver for the pipeline. This is back to why those pipelines need online chromatographs and they need online analyzers for other contaminants. That’s the world they’ve been going on for years with these large producers.

Now we’re seeing RNG or biogas being introduced into systems, and they’re introduced into systems where we haven’t typically had large variations. That’s causing not only additional concern and additional review of tariffs on the pipeline side, but that even trickles into some of our distribution companies also.

Russel:  That’s a really good point, Weldon. It’s a really good point. We’re talking a lot here about gas. There are on the liquid side, some of the same kinds of issues. You can find tariffs on the big liquids transportation as well. The issues there are different depending on whether it’s a pipeline that’s just moving crude or if it’s a pipeline that’s batching different kinds of liquids.

You get into the same complexities, and again, it’s all about what service are you trying to provide on both ends of your pipe, how are you providing that service, and how are you setting your business systems up to provide that service?

Weldon:  Exactly. Regardless of whether it’s a gas pipeline, or crude pipeline, or a refined liquids pipeline – let’s not forget NGLs, let’s get those guys in the mix, too. Regardless of what you’re looking at there, when you’re operating under tariffs, the overall impression is that we need to think less about changes or modifications in contracts or tariffs because we have a standard to apply across this whole pipeline.

But as you alluded to earlier in the conversation, that’s more robust and tighter than it would be in the midstream in the contract world. You’re going to have definitions as far as how often we have to test meters, if we’re not on an online chromatograph, how often we have to sample. That all gets defined. Your tariffs may define that the meter testing is done under tiering.

All of that, Russel, should flow down into how your measuring SOPs are set up. Even if your tariff is more generic in nature…it talks about meeting this particular standard or that standard.

Even if you have a more general tariff, just for protection, not only protection from the risk of losses, but the protection from the risk of lawsuits or disputes with the other parties, it’s extremely important for companies to have a well-defined set of measurement and operations SOPs when it comes to the pressures and safety testing.

They need a well-defined set of measurement SOPs, and those measurement SOPs need to define anything that was left to the generalization in the tariffs.

Russel:  One of the things that often gets missed, and I’ve covered this…I did a really interesting episode with some guys from Marathon about this, like whatever hydraulics engineer wishes that every business development guy knew.

I certainly heard this conversation around measurement, like whatever measurement guys wishes business development guys knew. The business development guys, their incentive is to get people connected and to get the business, right?

Weldon:  Right.

Russel:  The flip side of it is every time they make a change in the way they negotiate out the details of how we’re going to do measurement and who’s doing what, it impacts all the operational and measurement aspects of that interconnect, and ultimately impacts how you reconcile your accounting and your losses, and all that stuff.

There’s a tension between doing all the measurement tightly, in the same way, and what’s necessary to satisfy your customers and get business.

Weldon:  Absolutely. It’s also not uncommon for there to be a disconnect between what the commercial guys think they’re doing with contracts, or with tariff definitions, and what’s really happening.

On the contract side, I’ve seen multiple companies over the years, Russel, where the commercial guys were signing contracts that they thought were making them money only to find out that they weren’t.  Maybe, let’s just call it not quite as good at understanding, in some areas as it should be, and in others, about what some of the measurement terms were or what was including it.

Russel:  I certainly know people well that have been in that business development role, you’re primarily looking at, “Well, what’s the cost of the product? What’s the cost of the transportation? Why am I going to charge the fees?”

You’re not generally looking at what’s it going to require me to operate the way I’m specifying in the agreement. That often comes after I got the agreement signed. Particularly in the smaller, more entrepreneurial midstreams that are trying to move fast, be flexible, it tends to happen. The bigger guys, they set some firewalls up against all that well.

Weldon:  Typically, even the small guys, they understand the big-dollar issues in the midstream world. They know if it’s sour gas, they better have a pretty good idea of how sour it is, how much treating will they need. Is it wet? Is it high CO2? They know those pieces.

Sometimes the granularity is what gets missed. Water is probably one of the biggest items that is not understood well and has gotten missed in contracts. 

Russel:  In the gathering world, too, you do all the research you can to try and know what that well’s going to do, but you don’t know what that well’s going to do until you have it producing. You really don’t know what that well’s going to do until it’s been producing a while.

Weldon:  That first gas out of the well – not just the first day, sometimes weeks – if it’s a CO2 frack or whatever. What you see, the first day or two may have nothing to do with that wells long term performance. If you get out in some of the recovery fields, it gets even crazier than that, right?

Russel:  Yeah. There’s real challenges here. We’ve been talking about this in general terms and what are some of the challenges.

Really, my whole goal with this conversation is just to help people that might not understand about tariffs and what they are and how they’re used and how they impact things, not really to get into a whole lot of operating details.

To wrap this conversation up, what would you think that all pipeliners ought to take away from this conversation about tariffs and how they drive measurement and operations practice?

Weldon:  The thing that you should take away from this, if you’re a measurement professional, if you’re on the operation side, if you’re an operations executive, “make sure you have read and understood your tariffs and your contracts”, every one of them.

I can’t tell you how many measurement managers have looked me in the eye and said “They don’t let me see the contracts” or, “Yeah, we have a tariff. Everybody knows what it is.” “Okay, what’s your quality terms?” “Uh… I don’t know where to find that.” I’ve heard that over and over, Russel.

Russel:  Oh, my gosh. I wish I had a dollar bill for every time that was a painful conversation.

Weldon:  It is. It’s more prominent today, probably, than it was 10 years ago.

Russel:  When everything was on paper, you could walk down the hall, pull the file, look at it. Now that everything’s electronic and we’re controlling who has access to what, all that gets harder.

Weldon:  In the last year, I had a conversation with a company that will remain nameless. Their chief commercial guy, the head of their settlement accounting group, and their measurement director could not, over the course of three days, come up with the exact quality constraints of their tariff. And it wasn’t a little company!

Russel:  I’m not surprised by that. It’s interesting how we can get so myopically focused on just keeping the wheels turning, that we can lose the bigger picture, and the bigger picture can get away from us. That’s true for all of us, man.

I’ve certainly seen that challenge in my own life and in my own businesses. I thought I knew what was going on, but I hadn’t looked at it. Then I realized I hadn’t looked at it in three years. I go back to look at it, and I’m like, “Oh, my God, I can’t even find it.”

Weldon:  I’ve seen, Russel, a side of that, that for the purest of the measurement guys, is not something we like to talk about. There are companies likely spending more money than they need to in their measurement. They’re striving to achieve a tighter level of measurement, or more common testing, more frequent testing, or meeting standards that their contracts or tariffs may not require.

Russel:  They’re getting to additional accuracy that doesn’t provide commercial value.

Weldon:  Correct. What you don’t want, and what you can’t have, is biased errors, right?

Russel:  Yeah.

Weldon:  Trying to turn general inaccuracy or precision of the equipment down lower and lower and lower and lower has a breakeven point, to where you’re spending more money than you putting at risk. A lot of companies don’t understand that, also.

Russel:  Then they certainly don’t manage their infrastructure that way. That’s a great place to leave it. The moral of this story is that everybody who’s operating should understand their tariff and how it’s put together and what’s behind that.

Weldon:  Absolutely.

Russel:  Understand why it’s put together that way.

Weldon:  Don’t be afraid to walk down the hall and grab a commercial guy by the ear and go, “Explain what you were thinking here.”

Russel:  You’ll appreciate this now that you’re doing your own podcast. I have a philosophy. The only dumb question is the one that’s never asked. One of the things that the podcast has done for me is it’s allowed me to get smart guys on the podcast and ask them questions that I might not want to ask in the meeting. Because I won’t try to educate everybody, so I can ask the dumb question. It gives me a little cover.

One of the goals of the whole education through conversation idea was to be able to get these kinds of topics out there and ask these questions and let people learn. Particularly people that are working in a role, they might not get near the tariff or whatever else, and let them get at least some sensitivity to what it is and why it matters and all that. Well on you. A good way to wrap it.

Weldon:  Thanks for having me on again, Russel.

Russel:  Glad to have you. See you soon. I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode of the Pipeliners Podcast and our conversation with Weldon.

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Russel:  If you have ideas, questions, or topics you’d be interested in, please let me know either on the Contact Us page or reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. I’ll talk to you next week.

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Transcription by CastingWords