This month’s Pipeline Technology Podcast episode sponsored by Pipeline & Gas Journal features Charles Crews, President and CEO of the Northeast Gas Association (NGA), discussing the latest in the industry, specifically in the Northeast United States.

In this month’s episode, you will learn about the NGA and its mission to support its member companies to ensure that pipelines continue to be safe, ways to achieve clean energy goals, and the transition to renewable natural gas and hydrogen-enriched natural gas.

Northeast Gas Update: Show Notes, Links, and Insider Terms

• Charles Crews has more than 25 years of experience in natural gas utility operations, including serving as vice president, Gas Operations with Consumers Energy in Michigan. Since 2019 he has led an energy advisory firm, FPH Consulting Services. In September 2021, Crews was named President and CEO of the Northeast Gas Association. Connect with Charles on LinkedIn.
  • Read this Pipeline & Gas Journal article announcing the appointment of Charles Crew as President and CEO.
  • Northeast Gas Association (NGA) is a regional trade association that represents natural gas distribution companies, transmission companies, liquefied and compressed natural gas suppliers, and manufacturers and vendors to the industry. These companies provide natural gas to over 13 million customers in nine states (Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont).
  • NYSEARCH manages one of the premier natural gas research, development and demonstration (RD&D) programs in the United States. For over 20 years, NYSEARCH has worked as a consortium of natural gas Local Distribution Companies (LDCs) who have a common interest and need for research and technology development and demonstration. Today, as part of the Northeast Gas Association, NYSEARCH manages over 30 projects in various stages of development for LDCs, federal agencies and their manufacturing and commercial partners.NYSEARCH, with many members and associate members from around North America, was originally set up as a New York RD&D organization but has grown in recent years because of its success in delivering high value RD&D projects, its high leverage on the research dollar, and its products that provide quantum leap innovation and savings.
  • Gas Operations School is an annual event that brings together students, instructors, and exhibitors to provide technical knowledge and skills of various operational functions in the natural gas industry. This year’s school is on June 7 – 10 in Smithfield, Rhode Island.
• Pipeline & Gas Journal is the essential resource for technology, industry information, and analytical trends in the midstream oil and gas industry. For more information on how to become a subscriber, visit pgjonline.com/subscribe.
• Marcellus Shale is a deep natural gas reserve running under parts of New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, Maryland, and Virginia. According to the U.S. Geological Survey, the Marcellus Shale contains about 84 trillion cubic feet of undiscovered, technically recoverable natural gas, and 3.4 billion barrels of undiscovered, technically recoverable natural gas liquids.
• Utica Shale is even deeper and larger than the Marcellus Shale, covering parts of the same states plus Kentucky and Tennessee.
• 2022 API Pipeline, Control Room and Cybernetics Conference was held on May 3-5 in Savannah, Georgia. It offered the opportunity to experience superior technical presentation, view the latest displays of industry technology, and a chance to network with peers.
• 2022 AGA Operations Conference & Spring Committee Meetings was held on May 2-5 in New Orleans, Louisiana. The Operations Conference is the natural gas industry’s premier gathering of utilities, distribution, and transmission operators. Developed by gas operators for gas operators, it is the industry’s largest annual forum with regularly more than 700 operations management in attendance and offers technical sessions with topics on gas measurement, pipeline integrity, operations advocacy, system safety, environment, storage, engineering, renewable natural gas, construction and maintenance, gas control, supplemental gas, corrosion control, and plastic materials. Attendees share technical knowledge, leadership strategies, and learning events promoting the safe, reliable, and cost-effective delivery of natural gas to the end-user.
• Hydrogen-enriched natural gas (HENG) is a mixture of hydrogen and natural gas. It has been identified as a promising pathway for power-to-gas technology with the potential to reduce emissions while achieving a feasible return on investment.
• Decarbonization is the reduction of carbon dioxide emissions through the use of low carbon power sources, achieving a lower output of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere.
• Local distribution companies (LDC) are regulated utilities involved in the delivery of natural gas to consumers within a specific geographic area. There are two basic types of natural gas utilities: those owned by investors, and public gas systems owned by local governments. Local distribution companies typically transport natural gas from delivery points located on interstate and intrastate pipelines to households and businesses through thousands of miles of small-diameter distribution pipe.
• Denver-Julesburg (DJ) Basin is a crude oil and liquids-rich gas play that is located in Northeast Colorado and Southeast Wyoming. [Find out more about oil and gas activity in the DJ Basin.]
• Renewable natural gas (RNG), also known as bio-methane or biogas, is pipeline quality gas derived from biomass that is fully interchangeable with natural gas. The future natural gas network could include renewable gas from dairy farms, wastewater treatment plants, landfills, wood waste, and food waste plants. Like conventional natural gas, RNG can be used as a transportation fuel in the form of compressed natural gas (CNG) or liquefied natural gas (LNG). RNG qualifies as an advanced biofuel under the Renewable Fuel Standard.
• Mariner East Project consists of three pipelines carrying highly volatile ethane, propane, and butane: the 8-inch Mariner East 1 line; the 20-inch Mariner East 2 line; and the 16-inch Mariner East 2x. The lines carry Marcellus Shale gas from western Pennsylvania to the company’s 800-acre terminal in Marcus Hook, Delaware County, where the bulk of the product is shipped to Scotland to make plastics. Energy Transfer now plans to convert part of the Mariner East 1 back to carrying refined products, such as gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, and heating oil. The “Pennsylvania Access” line would connect Midwest refineries to central Pennsylvania, the Lehigh Valley, and upstate New York.

Northeast Gas Update: Full Episode Transcript

Announcer:  The Pipeline Technology Podcast, brought to you by Pipeline and Gas Journal, the decision-making resource for pipeline and midstream professionals. Now your host, Russel Treat.

Russel Treat:  Welcome to the Pipeline Technology Podcast, episode 21. On this episode our guest is Charles Crews, president of the Northeast Gas Association. We’re going to talk to Charles about what’s going on in the Northeast, and particularly around the Marcellus, and gas demand, and new energy, and a whole bunch of topics, many of which have been reported on in the Pipeline and Gas Journal.

Charles, welcome to the Pipeline Technology Podcast.

Charles Crews:  Thank you. I appreciate you having me.

Russel:  I’m looking forward to this conversation. It took us a while to get this on our calendars. Before we dive in, tell us a little bit about your background, where you come from, and how you got into pipelining. and landed in association management in the pipelining space.

Charles:  What a journey that is. I’ll do my best and try to keep it short, Russel.

I started in the gas business back in the mid ’90s. I worked for a utility company in Ohio. Born and raised Columbus, Ohio. Go Buckeyes. Don’t hate me for that.

I started with Columbia Gas of Ohio, a distribution engineer. Then, I worked for the parent company, NiSource. Many of the listeners are familiar with the NiSource company brand. Just all across Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Massachusetts. No longer Massachusetts, but I started there and worked my way up through the organization.

Then, I went over to the midstream business for NiSource. I spent some time down in Houston in about 2012. That’s when I first got into understanding Marcellus and Utica shale plays, as well as the pipeline business.

I fashion myself, Russel, as more a distribution guy living in a pipeline world.

Russel:  Charles, a distribution guy living in a pipeline world, that ought to be a song. Somebody should write that.

Charles:  [laughs] Yeah, we’ve got to come up with the lyrics to that.

Russel:  That’s a whole another podcast right there.

Charles:  That’s a whole another podcast, for sure.

Then, I worked at Consumers Energy, one of the country’s largest utility companies in Michigan. I was the vice president of gas operations for the company over its distribution pipeline and storage business. I tell you, Consumers Energy is such a great company.

I spent about six years or so there. Then, I went into consulting. Again, hence the journey I talked about. Opened my own consulting practice. The timing wasn’t the best. It was January of 2020. Of course, the pandemic hit.

Russel:  Oh my gosh.

Charles:  Yeah.

Russel:  That’s about the worst timing you could possibly have.

Charles:  Especially when it’s treading a new territory for you and a new business. I learned a lot. I learned quite a bit, as many people did, during 2020 and thereafter.

Then, I had an opportunity to come to the Northeast Gas Association. I’m currently president and CEO of the Northeast Gas Association. I started in September of 2021. It’s a phenomenal, outstanding leadership team. Remarkable companies that I’ve had the joy and pleasure to work with so far.

In short, that’s my journey, for lack of a better word.

Russel:  I always find that question interesting because there’s never a consistent answer. People ask me sometimes, “How did you get where you are?” I’m like, “I can’t tell you that. You have to figure out where you need to be.”

Charles:  You do.

Russel:  That’s a journey, right. Just put one foot in front of the other and follow those things that you’re interested in and have passion about.

Charles:  You know what I love about it is oftentimes in our careers there are paths that we don’t know are going to emerge or are going to show up. When we walk down that path, most of the time we know it’s a good travel. For me, it has been, but it certainly was not a path–to your point–that I charted out years ago when I started in this industry.

I’ve been in this industry now for almost 30 years.

Russel:  Me neither, man. If you’d had told me, in some ways it is and in other ways it completely isn’t. I always knew I wanted to run my own business and do things like that, but the context with what I’m doing, I had no idea what that was going to look like. If I would have guessed, it would have been something completely different. I’m happy where I landed.

Let’s transition and talk about what we got on to talk about. Tell us about the Northeast Gas Association. Who are you guys, and what’s your mission?

Charles:  We are one of the nation’s leading a trade associations. We have the privilege of serving 35 member companies in the Northeast United States. We have the New England states, and New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

Our focus has been and continues to be on how we support the member companies that we serve through education and training, like operator qualifications and the like. We also are focused on how we can help the transition, both our companies and the customers they serve, as we think about clean energy going forward.

We believe that natural gas is a significant part of the decarbonization pathway. We support clean energy in that regard, because I think, personally, that there are multiple ways for us to achieve our clean energy goals.

We’ve been in existence since 2003 when we merged with the New York Gas Group and New England Group. We date back further than that, Russel. The other thing I’ll say is we have a research and development arm. It’s called NYSEARCH.

Nationally recognized research and development organization that has a consortium of companies that are leaning into how we ensure that pipelines continue to be safe, continue to operate as they transport natural gas across the country.

Also, we’re looking at renewable natural gas, and hydrogen enriched natural gas, and the like. It’s certainly an exciting time for the Northeast Gas Association. I’m happy to be part of it.

Russel:  It’s certainly an interesting time that we’re in in our industry. I’m pretty exhausted today, because I spent the first half of the week at API Pipeline and Control Room Conference in Savannah, and then the last part of the week in New Orleans at the AGA Operations Conference.

I made a number of presentations and listened to a number and all the conversations about energy transition. It was interesting. The keynote at API was interesting on that domain. If we want to talk about that, we ought to get back together, because there’s a whole conversation there.

The thing that you said about renewable natural gas and hydrogen-enriched gas, those are coming like a freight train. We don’t yet understand what’s going to be necessary to scale that, but they’re coming like a freight train.

Charles:  They’re clear and present for sure.

Russel:  The technology is understood. The business practices and the details are not, but the technology is well understood.

Charles:  The technology is understood. Like you said, we can have a much richer conversation about where we’re at today with it. One of the things that we have to think through is how we prepare and ready our infrastructure for what could be a new commodity, or what will be a new commodity passing through it.

Our research, as is others, is looking at what percent do we begin to reach before hydrogen, for instance, begins to compromise the integrity of the pipeline.

Russel:  I sat in a great presentation on exactly that subject at AGA, where a company had done a bunch of research looking at various concentrations and what would be the impact on the pipe. Very, very interesting.

The other thing that’s also very interesting is as that information begins to get out into the marketplace, that people begin to understand, “What we’re really looking at is maybe 5 to 20 percent hydrogen in the pipe. Here are the impacts of 20 percent hydrogen in the pipe. Here’s the pressures we’re probably doing that at.”

You start getting all the real operating construct around it. That was interesting. I went to another presentation about all of the measurement and commercial aspects of hydrogen, and that was way more involved in what I thought it was going to be, probably 10 times more involved than what I thought it was going to be.

Charles:  For you and I, guys that have been in the business, we know what we know. It’s safe to say that as we continue to see hydrogen, and renewable natural gas, and things like that mature in their development, we have to be able to talk to consumers and customers in a way that is understood and consumable.

I’ll talk to family members of mine and friends of mine that aren’t in the business, and they say, “What are you talking about hydrogen?” It’s an opportunity, and I’m sure our listeners right now can appreciate this, I say that because we have a responsibility not only to do the science and put forth and promote the technology.

We also have to have a good, responsible way in how we talk about it and how we share the information, because that is just as important, if not the technology itself.

Russel:  I always say the difference between a good engineer and a great engineer is the ability to communicate to people outside their space.

Charles:  [laughs] As an engineer myself, I appreciate that.

Russel:  I think most engineers do. It’s not an easy thing. I remember years ago, trying to explain software to my grandmother, who was born in 1900.

Charles:  [laughs]

Russel:  Trying to explain to her what software was, it’s not an easy thing. I got there, but it wasn’t easy. What do you think? We’ve already talked a little bit about hydrogen and renewable natural gas. What are some of the other key issues that are facing the Northeast Gas Association members?

Charles:  Good question. As I think about it, I put things in probably five or six buckets, and we’ve talked about a few of them already. I would be remiss if I didn’t say the first and foremost priority for our business is public, employee, and pipeline safety.

A good colleague and friend of mine said, “We have to quit saying that safety is the number one priority in our business.” I said, “Huh?” I tilted my head a bit and I said, “OK. What are you saying?” He said, “It’s the priority. It’s not the number one priority. It’s the priority.”

I like that, and I think that resonates well with people in the business. If we don’t operate or see to it that our infrastructure and our facilities operate in a safe manner, all it takes is one incident. We’ve seen that across our country in a number of instances, not many, but we have, and that has a ripple effect.

If we don’t double down and we don’t keep that front and center, I think about our business as a house of cards, particularly right now. In that house of cards, there have been cards that have been pulled away, and we’ve rebuilt the house through enhanced policies, through ways in which we’ve been more proactive in how we train and evaluate our workers.

If we’re not careful, one of those cards is going to get pulled again, and it’s going to be difficult for us to rebuild, or keep our house in order to use that analogy. Safety is going to always be front center.

Russel:  You said it’s the number one priority, the priority. I think it’s a prerequisite, because without safety, we don’t have a business. We lose our license to operate and we’re done.

You saw that in Massachusetts in your world, where you had an incident, and that operator lost their license to operate and was forced out of the state. It’s got real commercial consequences.

Charles:  I mentioned I worked for NiSource. NiSource was the company that –it’s no secret–    had the incident in Massachusetts. It’s a great operating company, good operators, good engineers, good leaders.

When you have a situation like you had in Massachusetts and in other parts of the country, that leaves you with, “What can I continue to do more of, and how can I continue to operate?” It’s a responsibility that we have and that we’ve got to carry.

Like I said, all it takes is one incident, and that incident could disrupt our goal as we go forward.

Russel:  The Northeast has some interesting and unique market dynamics that we don’t see in the other parts of the country. Certainly, it’s a population center. It’s an older population center, so a lot of the infrastructure is older.

There’s a lot of bottlenecks to supply, and there’s a lot of things going on now that remind me of what was happening in the 70s in the gas world, where we had market dynamics caused gas shortages during some cold winters and such. What are you guys doing around the energy cost, energy security, energy reliability, and all that?

One of the things that we’re a victim of is that we have done it so well for so long, people just expect to walk into their house and turn the gas on, it’s no big deal.

Charles: Gets to be a routine. One of the things that we’re continuing to focus on and help our members is, how do we coordinate between gas and electric operations?

When you look at what happened in California, and the challenges that they had there, and then last winter in Texas, if you don’t draw the connection close, you can see, is it related or not related? It’s very much related.

I’m talking about the decisions that we make, and how we power the grid, and how we operate our gas infrastructure. In the Northeast, 50 percent of power generation is from natural gas.

Many people, the majority of people, heat their homes through natural gas. For us, as we think about costs and as we think about how we continue to manage such costs, we have to do so with an all-in perspective and how we coordinate our electric users with gas.

That’s been a big part of our strategy. We try to come together, have some discussions with the LDCs, many of which are combination companies, on what we do over here impacts what we do over there. The capacity that we have here, we recognize that it has a residual impact there.

Specifically, some of the things that we’re looking at, Russel, is how we can create that platform where electric and gas operators can have a discussion and have a collaboration. I think Northeast is really ripe for that. 

The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and New York, and others are such responsible energy providers that I think it creates the platform to do those things.

Russel:  Tell me, what’s going on in the Marcellus that’s impacting all of this because the Marcellus, I’m certainly no expert, but I know enough about the Marcellus that if you go back prior to 2000, before they really started to develop, you had a lot of gas in the Northeast, a lot of coal bed methane, a lot of stripper wells and such.

Most of the gas supply was coming from the Gulf Coast. That has changed. Most of the supply for the Northeast is coming out of the Marcellus now. How is that changing the dynamic in the Northeast gas market?

Charles:  I’ll answer the first part. I’ll make some comments first and then, maybe, answer the latter part of that question. I want to reiterate the fact that the Appalachian region has provided the largest share of US domestic natural gas in recent years.

Russel:  All of the growth, pretty much, in gas production has come out of Appalachia. Everything else that’s been gas production increase has been residue gas off of oil wells, and the Permian and the DJ. The Marcellus is a pure gas play.

Charles:  Yeah, absolutely.

Russel:  It’s right in the heart of where a big part of the gas demand is in the US.

Charles:  I’ve said this before, and I’ve been asked about its impact on the Northeast. I’ll say it again. The Marcellus and the Appalachian region is just a few hundred miles away from my office. The concern that we have, the challenge that we see, no surprise, is that we are seeing pipeline projects and the ability to serve the Northeast, the New York market and the like, are becoming challenged with project siting and permitting.

It’s not just with gas pipelines. It’s not just a gas pipeline issue, but it also is impacting electric transmission and other energy forms as well. My point is you have this abundant supply of natural gas. We’ve seen some of the challenges to trying to get that gas into the Northeast.

We’ve seen projects withdrawn such as the Constitutional Pipeline a few years ago and the Pyrenees Pipeline last year. Years of planning and work with real market demand behind all these projects is disappointing to see that they’re falling short.

I’m an optimist. Call me one of the last remaining optimists. I do believe, going back to my point earlier, that as we educate, we share, and we promote the value of what we can get out of the Appalachian region, it can land squarely on customers to give them a choice. That choice can also create opportunities for us to get these projects approved that we need.

What occurs in the Northeast, Russel, if I can opine for a second, is that geologically speaking, we don’t have a lot of underground storage capability, geologically speaking.

What that does is it puts a reliance on our LNG and LNG imports. In the Northeast, LNG makes up about 28 percent, 30 percent, even more, maybe even 35 percent on peak winter demand days.

LNG is an important part of our grid network, but the challenge of that is what’s happening right now, and if I could tiptoe into the world economy and what’s happening right now with Ukraine in Europe, as that continues, we’ll start to see those increases in LNG prices.

The concern there is, what’s the ceiling of that, and whether the customer is going to see as a result of that higher LNG cost. I’m trying to draw a comparison for listeners.

Russel:  I was just going to say ultimately, what’s the check the customer has to write at the end of the day?

Charles:  Yeah, and these are real kitchen table discussions. I’ll say it, I don’t think a lot about my energy bill. I’m blessed and privileged to be one of the Americans that don’t have to make choices between whether I get groceries or whether I pay my energy bill, but there’s plenty of Americans that are in that situation.

Russel:  Charles, I would even say this. Even though some of us are in a place in our life where we don’t have to worry about it anymore, but most of us have been in that place, where you’re sitting and you’re looking at your budget and you’re looking at, “Here’s the money I’m bringing in.

“Here’s what I got to pay for gasoline to get to work. Here’s what I got to pay to keep the lights on and keep it warm or cold in the house from running the AC. Here’s my groceries, and then here’s what’s left.” A lot of times, the money runs out before you get through that list.

It’s very difficult, and particularly for those things you don’t have control over. You don’t have control over what the root cause of all those things are. You only have control over your consumption. When you start having to limit any of those things, you’re limiting lifestyle.

Charles:  Limiting lifestyle. That’s a good way in which you phrased that. Again, and not to get on the long soapbox about it, we started off the question about, what do I think in terms of what’s happening in the Marcellus Shale and Appalachian, and how does that impact Northeast?

In short, we have some opportunity to see that projects can be sited and can be permitted so that we can continue to get energy to customers, low to no-carbon energy to customers where they need it.

The flip side of it is, I’m encouraged by the fact that new infrastructure can be done, as we’ve seen with the Transco Williams project, and National Fuel completed a project recently, and Enbridge also completed its Appalachia to Market project. I’m encouraged by that.

You and I talked before this call, we talked about the announcement of Energy Transfer with the Mariner East project.

Russel:  I was going to ask you about that, Charles, because it’s interesting. We’ve gotten a lot of publicity about everything that’s been canceled. The interesting thing you said get them approved, but in a lot of these cases, we had them approved, and we started construction, then the approvals got removed.

That’s even worse than not getting them approved, because now you’re asking these companies to write off billions of dollars of investment without ever getting into any result, and that’s going to constrain the market.

The market’s going to stay away from those kinds of projects. You brought up Mariner East, and it’s important to talk about that, because that’s a success. We haven’t talked about many of those.

Russel:  My biggest question was, what did Mariner do differently that allowed them to get the project built?

Charles:  That’s a good question. Maybe it was persistence.

As any infrastructure project, it did take longer than anticipated, but it was completed, and it was a real achievement. We need to pause and celebrate that. How they were able to achieve what they did in a way in which they did, I don’t know if I have a good answer for that.

I’ll go back to an earlier point that I made, and maybe this fits, is that continuing to talk about the value of the project, and not just necessarily the value of the project. You can talk till you’re blue in the face about the value, and oftentimes, certain people that oppose necessarily won’t listen.

If you can demonstrate what the cost, and how you control that cost, and the benefit of such, and you create where it’s difficult to say no, that’s, in and of itself, maybe part of the–again, not knowing exactly how they achieved what they did–but that’s part of the recipe.

That’s a fair way to look at it. That may be an overly generalized way of sharing my view on it, or my thoughts on it, but nonetheless, that’s at least what I see as I step back on the outside looking in.

Russel:  We’re coming to the end of our time, so I’d like to ask if there’s any other points you’d like to make, or things you’d want to communicate to the listeners about what’s going on in the Northeast and how it might impact the working folks.

Charles:  Man, that went by fast. Russel, you make it so easy to have a conversation here, I feel like I could talk for another hour. [laughs] I’d say a couple of things, at the risk of repeating myself.

For our association and for the customers or members that we serve, we want to make sure that we continue to focus on things like responsibly sourced gas. We focus on RNG, and hydrogen-enriched natural gas, and all those things.

The thing that we didn’t talk about, though, that is equally important, because that’s the pipes, and the valves, and the regulators, and all the equipment and everything that gives so many Americans so many jobs, the one thing we didn’t talk about is workforce development.

How do we ensure that we–me and you, listeners–are creating opportunities for the new generation to enter this career, this trade, this skill that we love so much? Right now, the concern is, can we attract enough folks to the natural gas business, to the pipeline business.

We’re working diligently and trying to create new avenues for high school students and college students that may not know about careers in natural gas to find a way to where they can intern and get their foot in the door. If anything, I’ll end with that.

We have an opportunity in front of us to strengthen the workforce for the future. I’m excited to be a part of it now as one of the old guys, even though I don’t feel like it some days, but the old guys that have been here for a long time. How do I create opportunities for others to enter this workforce?

We’ve been doing it through our Gas Operations School, through the number of different conferences that we have. Not just us, but so many other associations across the country. I invite the audience to check out what they can so they can continue to help us build this workforce of the future.

Russel:  That’s right. That’s a great place to end it, and I’ll drop a little teaser out. I’ve been in conversations with a number of organizations. I have found a strong interest in doing something in our industry around Veterans Day as a thing to promote transitioning veterans into the energy business.

More to come on that. It’s still a nascent idea, but it’s starting to come together and it’s certainly got a fair amount of good support for the idea.

Charles:  Absolutely.

Russel:  Being a veteran myself, I’d like nothing better than…

Charles:  Thank you for your service.

Russel:  …to take other people into the business, because it’s been good to me.

Charles:  As a son of a Army veteran and raised the way I was raised, like so many children of military parents, I got to say veterans have such an important part in this country and can certainly have as big, if not bigger, part in our industry.

Russel:  They come with a lot of fundamental training and experience that’s hard to train in. Even if they’re working in something completely unrelated to the job they’re going to do after transition, generally, they know how to work independently. They understand job safety, and responsibility, and all that type of thing. They understand working under a set of procedures and constraints. There’s a lot they bring to the table that’s really appropriate. They understand communications, command, and control, which is a big part of our business, particularly in the utility space.

Charles:  I know we’re wrapping up, but I participated in a leadership training session. It was a series, where we had these Navy SEALs come in and taught us leadership principles. When you hear Navy SEALs, you think, “It’s command, control, thou shalt do this and do no other.”

Russel:  It’s not about that at all.

Charles:  Not at all.

Russel:  It’s all about trust, and teamwork, and knowing each team member’s strengths, and knowing each team member’s, weaknesses, and understanding how to back each other up. It’s much more about that than it is about command, and control, and direction.

Charles:  One phrase that I always remember from that is, “Discipline creates freedom.”

Russel:  There’s a message a whole bunch of people don’t want to hear.

[laughter]

Russel:  Oh, man, that’s a deep ocean right there, man.

Charles:  Yeah, it’s not mine. It’s the authors of…

Russel:  “Discipline creates freedom.”

Charles:  I may have butchered the title there, but it is that.

Russel:  That’s right up…

Charles:  Jocko Willink.

Russel:  I’ve heard Jocko talk. He’s awesome, man. He’s awesome. Look, Charles, this has been great.

[background music]

Russel:  We had a list of things to talk about. We only got through a little bit of it. We’ll have to get back together and cover some of the other subjects.

Charles:  Yeah, my wife says I get going, sometimes it’s hard to shut me up. I appreciate it. This is such a treat. I hope there’s opportunities to invite me back. Maybe we can touch on some of those other topics.

Russel:  I would love to do it. It’s been a pleasure, Charles. Thanks for coming on.

Charles:  Thanks so much.

Russel:  I hope you enjoyed this month’s episode of the Pipeline Technology Podcast and our conversation with Charles. If you’d like to support the podcast, please leave us a review on Apple Podcast. You can find instructions on how to do this at pipelinepodcastnetwork.com.

If there’s a Pipeline & Gas Journal article where you’d like to hear from the author, please let me know either on the Contact Us page of pipelinepodcastnetwork.com or reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. I’ll talk to you next month.

[music]

Transcription by CastingWords