This week’s episode of the Pipeliners Podcast looks at electric transmission reconductoring, the practice of upgrading power lines with higher-capacity conductors, and its growing impact on pipeline corrosion. Host Russel Treat is joined by Ashlin Bollacker, Director of Pipeline Safety at INGAA, and returning guest Frank Onesto, Pipeline Corrosion Engineer at Burns & McDonnell, to discuss how rising AC interference from grid upgrades threatens pipeline integrity and what operators can do to get ahead of it.

Electric Reconductoring on Pipeline Corrosion Show Notes, Links, and Insider Terms

• Reconductoring Replacing the conductor (wire) on existing transmission towers with higher-capacity conductor to increase a power line’s current-carrying capacity without building new infrastructure.
• AC interference / AC-induced corrosion The effect that current flowing through nearby overhead power lines has on buried pipelines, which can create both a shock hazard and accelerated corrosion at coating defects.
• Cathodic protection (CP) A corrosion control method that uses electrical current to protect buried pipeline steel; the episode discusses how AC interference can undermine CP effectiveness.
• INGAA The Interstate Natural Gas Association of America, a trade association representing interstate natural gas transmission pipeline companies.
• PHMSA The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, the federal regulator for pipeline safety.
• AMPP SP0177 An AMPP (formerly NACE) standard practice covering mitigation of AC and lightning effects on metallic structures, primarily addressing shock hazard thresholds.
• AMPP SP21424 An AMPP standard practice covering risk assessment, mitigation, and monitoring of AC-induced corrosion on pipelines.
• 49 CFR 192.473 The federal regulation governing interference currents on gas transmission pipelines, including the timelines for detecting and mitigating AC interference issues.
• Gas Mega Rule PHMSA’s multi-phase rulemaking updating gas transmission pipeline safety regulations, which strengthened interference survey requirements.
• REWIRE Act Federal legislation (the Reconductoring Existing Wires for Infrastructure Reliability and Expansion Act) intended to ease permitting and encourage advanced transmission conductor upgrades.
• Regional Transmission Organization (RTO) An entity that coordinates, controls, and monitors a multi-state electric grid region; the patchwork of RTOs is discussed as a factor limiting coordination with pipeline operators.
• Grid interconnection queue The list of pending power generation and transmission projects awaiting approval to connect to the grid.
• Grid-enhancing technologies (GETs) Technologies, including reconductoring, dynamic line rating, and power flow control, used to increase the capacity of existing transmission infrastructure.
• 811 / Call Before You Dig The national notification system for excavation near underground utilities, referenced in the episode as a system with no equivalent for above-ground reconductoring work.
• INGAA Foundation Midstream Infrastructure Report A periodic report projecting North American midstream infrastructure needs; the 2025 edition projects at least 37,000 miles of additional natural gas transmission pipeline needed through 2052.
• Burns & McDonnell An engineering, architecture, and construction firm

Electric Reconductoring on Pipeline Corrosion Full Episode Transcript

Announcer:  Welcome to the Pipeliners Podcast, episode four hundred fifty-seven, sponsored by Flowstate Solutions, providers of pipeline leak detection software built to remove barriers and empower operators. Flowstate Solutions helps teams detect anomalies, reduce false alarms, and improve response with practical tools designed for diverse pipeline operations. Learn more at FlowstateSolutions.ai.

The Pipeliners Podcast, where professionals, Bubba geeks, and industry insiders share their knowledge and experience about technology, projects, and pipeline operations. And now your host, Russel Treat.

Russel Treat:  Thanks for listening to the Pipeliners Podcast. I appreciate you taking the time, and to show the appreciation, we give away a customized YETI tumbler to one listener every episode. This week, our winner is Joey Estrada with BLM. Congratulations, Joey. Your YETI is on its way. To learn how you can win this prize, stick around till the end of the episode.

This week, we speak with Ashlin Bollacker of INGAA and Frank Onesto of Burns & McDonnell about electric transmission reconductoring and its impact on pipeline corrosion.

Hey, Ashlin, Frank, welcome to the Pipeliners Podcast.

Ashlin Bollacker:  Thanks for having me.

Frank Onesto:  Thanks for having us.

Russel:  So let me just start right off, and I’m going to ask you guys to do introductions. Ashlin, if you wouldn’t mind, would you go first?

Ashlin:  Yeah. Hi, everyone. I’m Ashlin Bollacker, Director of Pipeline Safety with the Interstate Natural Gas Association of America, or commonly known as INGAA. I’ve been here about a year, and prior to joining INGAA, I was actually at PHMSA.

Russel:  All right, so lots of background in pipeline safety. And Frank, you are a returning guest. Tell me, what was the episode when you were last on the podcast?

Frank:  Yeah, man, that was a while ago, but it was episode one hundred forty-eight, and we did a pretty deep dive on AC interference.

Russel:  Yeah, that was quite a while ago. That was almost four hundred episodes ago, I’m losing track. But yeah, we did a deep dive on AC interference and how that impacts cathodic protection. If you’re listening to this episode and you get a little twisted, you might want to go back and listen to that, because that really deals with fundamentals.

I asked Frank to come back on, and Ashlin to come on, to talk about something that INGAA in particular has interest in, and that’s something called electric reconductoring. I will confess that when Ashlin and Frank reached out about this topic, I was like, what is that? So let me just start there. What is electric reconductoring, and why should we care as pipeliners?

Frank:  Yeah, so I can tell you a little bit about that. Electric reconductoring is basically where a power utility, a power transmission company, is interested in upgrading circuits and creating more capacity. Maybe they can’t engage in a new greenfield project at this time, because those projects can take ten, fifteen years. So a quick, elegant solution to that is reconductoring an existing line. You determine that your towers are still good, your foundations are good. Really, all you need to do is string new conductor to unlock this additional capacity within the corridor.

These new conductors are often referred to as high-temperature, low-sag conductors, made of special composites. They don’t heat up as much, they don’t sag as much, so you can push a lot more current through them. These conductors typically double the current of the traditional conductors we typically see used in the industry.

So why is this a concern? When we talked about AC interference in episode one forty-eight, one of the points I hammered on was that AC interference is primarily driven by the amount of current flowing through the conductors. There are dozens of variables that impact the magnitude of interference, but current is one of the most influential. So if you keep all other variables the same and you double the current, you’re going to effectively double the interference on your pipeline.

That’s going to cause two issues. First, we’ll see a voltage rise on the pipe, which is a shock hazard presented to pipeline personnel or the public. The threshold for the voltage we need to stay below is outlined in AMPP standard SP0177. Second, there’s a corrosion concern, a threat to the integrity of the asset itself. When current wants to discharge off your pipeline, it causes accelerated corrosion. That’s outlined in AMPP standard SP21424, which sets limits for the voltage and current density we need to maintain to avoid these threats on our pipeline.

So again, when you double that current, you’ve effectively doubled interference, and reconductoring is often considered a maintenance activity. There’s really limited to no notification, you’re not even calling in an 811 dig notification, there’s no excavation involved. So it’s something power transmission companies can implement very quickly with not much notice. And then the next thing you know, pipeline operators are left wondering why the AC voltages on their line are double what they were just a month or two ago.

We’re seeing an increased number of pipeline failures due to AC-induced corrosion. Reconductoring isn’t necessarily new, but it’s becoming way more prevalent because the industry needs to unlock additional capacity quickly.

Russel:  That’s actually the next question I was going to ask. Reconductoring isn’t a new thing, it’s been going on forever. But it sounds like there’s more of it happening, and the voltage increases are substantial.

Ashlin:  Yeah, there’s a confluence of factors at play here. First, we’ve got really growing infrastructure demand and energy demand across all types of energy sources, both gas and electric. We need more energy infrastructure in this country to meet that demand. The INGAA Foundation recently issued their midstream infrastructure report, which shows that just to meet the rising demand for energy through twenty fifty-two, we’re going to need an additional thirty-seven thousand miles of natural gas pipelines in this country. At the same time, electric utilities are also working to expand their grid infrastructure and increase capacity on their existing lines.

Second, there’s a lack of permitting reform, which has made co-locating these assets increasingly attractive. If I’m a utility trying to avoid timely, expensive siting and environmental reviews, it’s going to look like a good option to put my gas and electric assets close together.

Third, you’ve got these new advanced transmission reconductoring and grid-enhancing technologies at play, and electric utilities can increase capacity on their lines and install them very rapidly.

Russel:  You know, I just learned too that the pace of corrosion related to electric reconductoring is about forty times the normal rate of a normal corrosion scenario. That’s pretty scary. Yeah. So let me pause you for a second, because I want to unpack that a little bit. How much faster? So if I had, say, a fifteen kV line, and somebody wanted to reconductor it and move it to thirty, I’m making these numbers up, but basically double the current capacity, how quickly could they do that? Is that a matter of days, weeks, months? Frank, you want to take this one?

Frank:  Yeah. Yes, quickly, typically in a matter of months, because again, you’re utilizing existing towers, you’re just stringing new conductor. You can accomplish miles of that installation in a day. It’s my understanding a lot of that is also done through helicopter installation.

Russel:  Yeah, you can imagine how quickly you can move through a reconductoring project. It’s similar to pipelining, as I understand it. They go out, they string the cable, and then they go out and lift and hang that cable. They replace the insulators, drop the old line, lift the new line into place, new insulators, and they do that miles and miles a day.

Frank:  Yeah, you got it. It’s really just limited by crew size and how quickly you can string things.

Ashlin:  Yeah, one other thing I want to add is that several states have recently passed legislation that’s either promoting these new technologies, like electric reconductoring, or requiring grid planners to start assessing their new capacity needs. So that’s going to continue to increase the number of projects and the pace at which we’re going to see more grid capacity increases.

Russel:  Well, the other thing that’s driving a lot of this is all the stuff going on with these huge data centers. There are a lot of these data centers, and this is one of the things people probably don’t understand about this. All those data centers are building their own base power generation, but they’re going to build that base power generation at a level probably beyond what they require, which means they’re going to need a place to shed that power. So it’s not just a matter of getting the power out to the data centers, it’s being able to take that excess power off the data centers and put it back on the grid. The speed at which they’re doing this stuff is crazy, it’s nuts.

Frank:  Yeah, that’s a great point, Russel. Huge power demands from data centers, and the complexity of the grid and how interconnected things are. It’s sometimes not as simple as, hey, we got one new line being energized, and it’s going to impact one pipeline immediately in that area. You see current distributions rippling throughout a much larger area. And you’ve got pipeline systems that are interconnected, electrically continuous with one another. So you introduce significant power loads in one area, and all of a sudden you’re experiencing issues ten miles down the road, on an asset you didn’t even know could be impacted at that distance.

Russel:  Well, it’s not only the high-tension stuff that’s being impacted, it’s all the neighborhood stuff too, the laterals, what we’d call pipelining laterals. All that is being reconductored as well.

Frank:  Yeah, it’s a huge cascading effect through the whole system, both transmission and distribution, on the electric and gas side.

Russel:  So, do we know to what degree a certain increase in electric voltage would increase the potential corrosion speed or impact? I’m trying to quantify, in some way, when I see a big increase in voltage on the line, what’s the related impact on my cathodic protection?

Frank:  Great question, and it’s a difficult one to answer. I’ve done this for the entirety of my career, and I still cannot look at a simple map of power lines and pipelines and truly know where interference is going to manifest and how severe it’s going to be. The reason is there are just so many variables at play. On the power line side, we’re talking about current, conductor type, tower grounding, shape of the circuits, phase arrangements. On the pipeline side, we’re talking about pipeline coating type, depth, soil resistivity, cathodic protection levels. I could go on with a couple dozen more.

Russel:  Yeah, it’s a complex variable.

Frank:  Complex, yes. And that’s why this is an issue, it takes a lot of time to collect field data, develop computer-based models, and actually get to the point where you can say, yes, I have an issue, or no, I don’t.

Ashlin:  Yeah, and that certainly is going to impact operating costs and operating budgets for pipeline operators, because if they know they have a reconductoring project impacting their pipe, they’ve got to try to get ahead of that. But it’s not an easy thing to get ahead of.

Frank:  No, it’s certainly not. And to put more emphasis on why this is such a time crunch, over the last few years, with the new gas legislation, the Mega Rule’s been released. 49 CFR 192.473, that’s the interference current section of the PHMSA code. The code says that when you detect an issue on your system, you need to quickly respond, start to study and mitigate within six months of detecting that issue. You should already be applying for the permits needed to install the mitigation. Then, within fifteen months of detecting the issue, you should have the mitigation in the ground. So you can see, that’s not much time to lay all that out, and it’s not considering the level of engineering and analysis required to do that.

Russel:  Yeah, exactly. You do a field survey and analyze data, that takes a month. You get someone under contract to do the model, and that takes a few months. Then you put together a drawing package, there’s three more months. Then you go out to bid for installation, then you do the installation. You can see how I’m stacking all these up, you can consume fifteen months faster than you realize. And that’s your best case.

Ashlin:  Yeah, and that’s if you’re able to maintain that as a priority throughout the process, which is hard to do in a pipeline operation.

Russel:  Exactly, yes. All right, well, that’s a good definition of the problem, and it’s significant, and the problem is probably getting bigger and accelerating. Anybody reading anything about the forecasts on pipeline infrastructure, energy use, generation capacity, the grid, etc., with what’s going on with these data centers by themselves, not to mention just normal growth in energy requirements, it’s a big deal. It’s a lot going on, it’s moving really fast.

Ashlin:  Yeah, it’s really fast, and there’s not much coordination happening, which is a big crux of the issue. There’s nothing that would really compel the electric transmission operators to notify the pipeline operators in advance.

Russel:  Right, there’s nothing like an 811 for that.

Ashlin:  Yeah, and the electric companies are regulated by kind of a patchwork of regional transmission organizations. There’s no notification requirement, no data-sharing obligation, and pipeline operators are often literally out in the field looking up, and that’s how they recognize it, the day they string and hang the wire, they don’t even know beforehand.

Frank:  Yeah, it’s very possible that somebody could do a reconductoring project and a pipeline operator wouldn’t even know, particularly if that crossing is perpendicular versus along the right of way.

Ashlin:  Yeah, and this is something we’ve been trying to really raise awareness of, that coordination gap between the federal regulators, PHMSA, DOE, FERC, who could all be at play here. Fundamentally, we see this as both a safety and a reliability issue between all of these industries. It’s not just pipeline operators, there are so many co-dependencies between gas and electric that if we have an incident related to this, it’s going to impact electric operators too.

Russel:  That’s right. So what should operators be doing right now, given this reality?

Ashlin:  Yeah, there are multiple tactics that can be implemented to be more proactive, that’s the whole goal, to be more proactive rather than reacting to an issue we just discovered, which can be difficult given the lack of notification and coordination, but there are still steps that can be taken.

That section of the code I mentioned, 192.473, states that operators should develop an internal interference monitoring program, and I know many of the clients we’re working with have that established. If you don’t have that program, establish it. That includes collecting AC voltage readings during annual surveys, using remote monitoring units, and things like that.

We see operators starting to inventory their rights of way, doing system-wide risk assessments where they determine, hey, we have X miles of pipe co-located with high-voltage lines. Then, taking it a step further, looking at the currents or the soils in the area and starting to prioritize where issues are likely to occur in the future, and where to focus mitigation efforts and funds. Things like pipeline integrity risk models already contain soil data, coating data, CP data, let’s bring in some AC voltage data too, and start incorporating AC threats into our integrity risk models.

And one other thing I’ll mention, and you kind of mentioned it already, Russel, sometimes you wouldn’t know reconductoring or new infrastructure is being built unless you really saw it. So, train your technicians and aerial pilots on what this issue is and what to look out for. I’m big on awareness of the issue.

Russel:  You know, one of the big things that comes up for me as I’m thinking about this, you mentioned aerial surveys. So, any kind of survey should be incorporating whether there have been changes to the electrical grid that crosses perpendicularly or runs along a right of way. I’m sure that with the algorithms they’re using for image analysis with satellite imagery and aerial photography, both on drones and aircraft, they could probably modify those algorithms to look for changes related to the electric.

Ashlin:  Yeah, that is a great thought. I actually just a couple days ago was talking to a client who said, hey, this high-voltage corridor crossing our pipeline, we were doing a survey and noticed they cleared another hundred feet of forest adjacent to this right of way. The right of way has been expanded, we see some spools out there, what’s going on. So that’s a great thought, using aerial imagery to recognize that stuff.

Russel:  And then, I guess the other question I have, for those guys doing foot surveys, walking the pipe, is there any equipment they can carry so they could pick up AC load coming from wires?

Frank:  There are some tests that can be performed, where you can string out wire along your high-voltage co-location and measure the voltage drop on that wire, then use some calculations and comparisons to say, okay, if this was the voltage rise on this little wire, this is how much current it would take to create that voltage rise. You can get some idea about the currents. But that’s more of an engineering test versus something I could put on my belt and collect data as I’m walking a survey route.

Ashlin:  Yeah, there are some products out there, some test stations that incorporate technology like that, but nothing quick and handheld a technician could carry.

Russel:  You know what the other thing is, those currents are fluctuating on an hourly basis, seasonally, and all of that. So even if you had that ability, you’re still taking a snapshot in time. What is that current going to be when everyone gets home from work and turns on their lights?

Frank:  That’s right, that’s right. And that stuff changes instantaneously on the electric grid.

Russel:  Exactly. So really, it’s more about just knowing if the work’s being done, and then based on that knowledge, getting out ahead of it. Okay, well, we have a current understanding, we know things are going to change, we need to revise our understanding.

Ashlin:  Yeah, absolutely. I just want to be clear on something too, I don’t think any of us here are anti-grid-expansion, or want to be a hindrance to increased electric capacity. I think folks just want to be notified. I think if there’s an opportunity for other partners in the industry, like gas and electric trades, I think they’d all be open to finding a solution that works within the current models and frameworks, so a notification from the electric company can just become part of the routine. The electric company can just pick up the phone and call someone they know at the gas company. There’s probably ways they could be doing this through other communities, other areas of jurisdiction, or other types of agencies, but ultimately we want more communication.

Russel:  Ultimately, more power being used is good for gas transmission, right? That growth in that business means growth in our business, they’re directly related. So it’s a good thing, it’s just something that needs to be managed. What’s going on at the state or federal level from a rulemaking or regulatory perspective to try and influence this?

Ashlin:  Yeah, at the state level, we’ve been seeing a number of states that have already developed legislation to promote grid-enhancing technologies, advanced transmission technologies, to put those into play and start planning to increase grid capacity. At the federal level, I know the REWIRE Act has really caught on.

Russel:  I think one of the things I’m hearing in this conversation is it’s kind of a shout-out to operators, their regulatory affairs departments, that are working with the regulatory agencies and trade associations, to try to get this on their list of priorities.

Ashlin:  Absolutely, that sounds like exactly where we’ve been trying to steer folks. Again, it doesn’t have to be a mandate, but it should be something that increases coordination and communication. There are already a number of different triggers that folks could point to in their planning.

Russel:  Yeah, there’s probably an opportunity within the 811 system as well, because a lot of this capacity is underground, or if it’s not underground currently, it’s going underground. There’s probably some opportunity there. There are some other interesting things going on in that domain too, where they’re looking at mapping systems and such. One of the things that comes up for me as I’m listening to this is we kind of have an operating assumption, a lot of us, that if it’s not underground, we don’t care. And this is a notable exception to that.

Ashlin:  Yeah, and Russel, I’ll take that back to the knowledge gap that I think exists on both the electric and gas side around AC interference for pipelines. Like you said, most people assume that, hey, the pipeline’s a hundred feet away, why would it be an issue at that distance, when actually, electrically speaking, that is very, very close. We see instances where even folks on the gas side, your land agent was the one responsible for negotiating the crossing agreement, and he doesn’t know about AC interference, he’s not a corrosion engineer. So we got our air bridging requirements met, no vibratory caissons going in near the pipeline, all good, and not realizing there’s another threat there that needs to be looked at by another group within their organization, their corrosion and integrity groups.

Russel:  Have there been any incidents directly related to a reconductoring project that you guys are aware of?

Frank:  So I am aware of many incidents related to AC-induced corrosion, we’re seeing an increasing number of instances across the country. These corrosion anomalies are showing up, not years later, but during construction. You get your line half-constructed, and all of a sudden you’ve got twenty percent wall loss on a pipe segment you just installed a month ago. Or you’re commissioning the CP system, the new line’s been installed, and now you’re finding issues. These issues can occur very rapidly and can be pretty severe. If they’re not properly mitigated, they can move really, really quickly. If they’re properly mitigated, they won’t move at all.

Russel:  I think that’s also something people need to be aware of. I’m making this up because I don’t have the expertise to speak to this issue, but as that current goes up, the field is going to strengthen, and it’s going to cover more ground, go deeper, go wider. And things that might have been completely unaffected, and somebody raises the current on the line, next thing you know, you’re materially affected.

Ashlin:  That’s a great point, that even though sometimes there’s a reconductoring project going on, that doesn’t necessarily mean the capacity is going to increase right away. The project may be in place, but perhaps it’s just been part of increasing the potential capacity for future years. So it’s something that, even if you’ve, one of the issues our members are experiencing is they’ll go and address AC mitigation for today’s scenario, and then the capacity increases tomorrow, and now all the work they just did to mitigate the problem is, I guess, useless.

Russel:  Yeah, I think that’s another thing, this isn’t really reconductoring, but it’s part of what’s happening with the electric grid because of renewables. Historically, the way our grid worked, we had a point of generation, and that fed out to the points of use, and there wasn’t a lot of interconnects, maybe a few, but not many. Right now, because people can put in solar panels and sell that power back to the grid, and wind can come back to the grid, and if I’m generating with my own generator, I can sell back to the grid, all of a sudden, what used to be a fairly static, predictable system is becoming highly unpredictable, much more dynamic. I don’t know that our approaches to cathodic protection are really keeping up with how dynamic the electrical power grid is becoming.

Ashlin:  Great point, Russel. These RTOs put out publicly available data on ongoing projects, and one thing you can poke around in is the grid interconnection queue. Last I heard, there are between ten and twelve thousand pending projects out there waiting for connection to the grid, which is pretty staggering to think about.

Russel:  Yeah, and that’s not the little stuff, that’s the big stuff.

Ashlin:  It’s the big stuff, yeah, because that doesn’t take into account all the homes and things at that level. It’s more, where am I connecting in to get a transformer for a new neighborhood.

Frank:  And you know what, Ashlin brought up a point that reminded me of something I kind of glossed over, that I want to return to real quick. We were talking about the issues with the lack of coordination and notification, and I commented on 192.473, and how this fifteen-month timeline is pretty tight. The other part of this, and I’ll take it back to when I talked about all those variables we need to know to perform an accurate study, if there’s no coordination happening, and we’re trying to reach out and get data to build an accurate model to protect a pipeline, and we’re not getting responses, or there’s hesitancy to share that data, a model is only as good as the information you feed into it. And you’re not always talking to the right organization within the power company.

Ashlin:  Yeah, and the data comes from different groups within a power organization. The data comes from one group, the steady-state loadings come from another group. It’s a little concerning, but we see more and more projects nowadays where we’re having to make a large number of assumptions about things I cannot see with my own eyes, what the arrangement is, you just have to guess. So not only are we left scrambling from a timeline standpoint, but also just the integrity of the analysis being done when we can’t get our hands on any real power data.

Russel:  No, this is all fascinating. So let’s wrap this up. I want to ask this final question. For an operator listening to this conversation who doesn’t know what their status is, what should they be doing right now?

Frank:  Yeah, I could start.

Ashlin:  Um, yeah. So I mentioned the interference surveying program, make sure you’re implementing one of those and collecting all the right readings. We’ve seen some instances where you’ve got an interference monitoring program, but maybe you’re not checking all your equipment or reading coupons on a regular basis. Make sure it’s a very robust program where you’re taking all the right readings at a time frequency that makes sense. You’re implementing things like data loggers, leaving them out there to collect continuous readings for a couple of weeks at a time. Having a really robust data collection and survey program is going to help you keep track of where your system is at today, and if issues pop up, you’ll be able to see it in the data.

But like I mentioned earlier, if we want to get a little more proactive about this, consider doing system-wide risk analysis, implementing AC into your pipeline integrity risk models. And when it comes to the actual mitigation and design of some of this stuff, build a good relationship with your neighbors, the power transmission companies. Explain why we need this data, and try to work some of your design and installation phases in parallel with each other. During the design and modeling phase, let’s start thinking about constructability now, so we don’t have to consider that in the second half of the project, when we’re already under this tight fifteen-month deadline. There are so many things we can bring into the upfront stages of an analysis that I think historically the industry hasn’t done, but we need to start considering, like wetland delineations. Let’s do that right off the bat, rather than closer to the end of a project, and then we’re scrambling to shift around routing and equipment and things like that. So just a few thoughts that come to mind.

So my recommendation for our members has always been to have a great relationship with your regulator, and make sure they know you’re making an earnest effort to mitigate any AC interference within that fifteen-month window. They will be absolutely willing to work with you and be supportive in helping manage you through that issue.

Russel:  You know, I don’t know, but one of the things that comes up for me is, could I make a request of the regulator if I’m having problems getting to the right place or getting the right data from the power company? Could I make a request to PHMSA to send a communication to the electric operator and put them on notice?

Ashlin:  Yeah, that is definitely an ask you can make. I know it may also be at the state level too, so folks would want to consider their state utility commission point of contact as well.

Russel:  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s not the kind of thing I would think of off the top of my head. But ultimately, PHMSA, the operators, the engineers, the consultants, we all have the same fundamental goal, which is to deliver the products we need to deliver, and do that without incident. So if we can collaborate to do that, I think anybody would.

Frank:  Yeah, absolutely, that’s the higher calling we’re all after.

Russel:  So, yes, that’s the goal. Well, look, this has been a great conversation, I’ve certainly learned a ton. For the listeners, we’ll try to make sure the show notes and links to resources on this one are pretty robust, so you can go to the Pipeline Podcast Network website with this episode up and find some resources that might be useful if you have questions. So I guess my final comment here, my primary takeaway, is this whole AC mitigation issue is probably going to become a bigger issue over the next ten years.

Ashlin:  One hundred percent, one hundred percent. And when I think about this issue, Russel, I take it back to safety. I’m sure there are project schedules and costs and all that stuff at play, but at the end of the day, this is a safety concern, not only for personnel working on gas and electric infrastructure, but the public too. You know, that test station next to a kid’s park or something.

Russel:  Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Frank:  The engineers who designed this critical infrastructure, it’s all of our responsibility to make sure what we’re putting out into this world is safe.

Ashlin:  Absolutely. We try not to be alarmist about it, but I think the writing’s on the wall once you start to look at all the major grid enhancements, the demand for energy, and all the state and now federal legislation that’s at play to really enhance all these grid-enhancing technologies. Unfortunately, I think we could start seeing this become more and more of an issue.

Russel:  Right. Well, thank you both for the time, and we’ll make a special effort to make sure we do some good show notes for this episode.

Frank:  Thank you, Russel.

Ashlin:  Thank you.

Russel:  I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode of the Pipeliners Podcast and our conversation with Ashlin and Frank. Just a reminder, you should register to win our customized Pipeliners Podcast YETI tumbler. Just visit the Pipeliners Podcast website and enter yourself in the drawing. If you have ideas, questions, or topics you’d be interested in, or if you’d like to be a guest, please let me know on the Contact Us page at PipelinePodcastNetwork.com, or reach out to me on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next week.